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Dark Eldar

 Post subject: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:10 am 
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Hi all,

Would there be any objections to me writing up the dark eldar development list. JimXII hasn't logged in for a couple of years.

Plan would be copy the UK list and add in the titan from the original netEA list.

If I was allowed to rewrite it up. Couple of questions to the ERC members for help getting it closer to approval easier.

Could the incubi keep their MW on the EA.

And could the titan keep its 4x 3+TK. At 500 points 2 vessels of pain seem better.

Thanks for reading.
From the guy who's travelled the furtherest for a tournament ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:57 am 
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Hey Norto, hope you're good.

There's an upgrade price drop thread on the ERC board that's still waiting on some comments/votes:

Haemonculi to +100
Hellions to +50
Incubi to +75
Mandrakes to +75
Reavers to +50
Scourges to +75
Warp Beasts to +50
Warriors to +50
Wyches to +50

You can do whatever you want for a list. If you're looking to update the existing approved list the changes can't be major otherwise you're looking at the 18 games across 3-5 groups. The two changes you list would be small if they were changes. I'm not sure what the UK list is in comparison to the NetEA off the top of my head though. If units/formations/upgrades are getting removed or special rules are getting huge rewrites those are what I'd qualify as major.

If you're up for some VASSAL playtests, I'm game. I've started playtesting Squats again since things have opened up here for the first time since March 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:34 pm 
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Hey Dave,

Its been a long time.

It was a while ago now but i think the original idea was to update the existing Dark Eldar. I played it a decent amount when it was released using a few lists and settling on stealing SteveColes list. ;D I might just try and write it up and post it under a different Kabal name.

I need to get my computer set up at home again to make it easier to play. Keen to though. Do miss the vassal games we had.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:19 am 
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Hey guys i am very excited to have some conversations regarding the dark eldar. I have been playing the list for a year now with about ten games. My army has not had the pleasure of getting smacked by Dave the epic gamer but that will happen soon. I like the pricing on the added units Dave and think they work great. I like the randomness of the Kashnarack and the lack of ground based AA. The two ideas i would like to push are making the barge of pleasure a hundred points with the same stats and making the lander weaker and cheaper. Another big inclusion would be the addition of the portable Gate and having it attached to a War engine such as the Lander or a Barge rather than a unit as it is in the UK list i believe. Well happy to be back on Tac coms and excited to be talking Dark Eldar


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:29 am 
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Was there a major issue with Jim's list Norto? afaik it was fully group tested, maybe a couple of tweaks with the titan/big boats, he just lost motivation to do a full changes log.

It certainly got a workout in the Oz scene...

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:54 pm 
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I thought much of the work done to revise the dark Eldar list was good we just need to continue the conversation and try and finalize a new list or alternate version. I am happy to do playtesting for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:45 pm 
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I have played many games with Dark Eldar and some ongoing themes are as follows - Dark Eldar need to go first turn two to be most effective hence my push to make them a strategy rating of 4. .. Tormentor titan is often BTS and gets destroyed in almost every game i have played. If having core infantry units on the table you most uses barges to stay alive. I have won about half the games i have played but usually its very close win. I would Love to keep working on Dark Eldar with people in the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:18 am 
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Well we better get a conversation going ;D

Can we try and just work out some changes to the existing list? I'd suggest we all have a look at what the UK have done. The 2017 list is based off that. Have a read of the what and why part of the UK codex on dark eldar. I'm not saying drop everything like they have but give boosts to some units.

My suggestion would be to give them strat 4, adopt the UK haemonculi covens, scourges, mandrakes and aircraft setup. Probably unpopular ones of the UK shadowfields and incubi compulsory BTS.

They also have the portable webway to consider.

I don't know what other peoples thoughts are but I'd hate to see 2 different lists with different unit stats and rules. Plus its alot easier to make changes to an existing list then a brand new one.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:30 am 
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So what's all that work out to?

Rename Grotesques to Wracks and add new more CC-e Grotesques
Scourges loose an EA but get FF3, a 15cm AP5 shot and cost 25 less
Mandrakes gain a FF bump, invulnerable and scout, and cost 25 less
The Slavebringer gets moved out of transport, looses AA, gets an AA range reduction and can't transport Talos
Raven gets renamed and gains missiles
Razorwing gets renamed and completely re-weaponed, cost changes

What else am I missing?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:00 pm 
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I have no desire to make to many changes to the list just slight point reductions and what not.

Talos need the slavebringer for transport or may never be used - their stats should be 4 up regular attack and a 4 up macro atttack - four Talos in a slavebringer cost 400 points and is the only unit with any staying power.

Barge should keep same stats and go to a hundred points, a unit with two would be really good but cost between 450 or more. They could loose the BP shot and just have two 4 up AP shots at 30... ?

Tormentor Titan just needs to be better at 500 points and is often the BTS. Look what a plague tower gets you for 350 points. We should lower the cost or make it better. Possibly extra DC or Armor of 4 up instead of 5 up.

Mandrakes should have the 3 up first strike attack - Invulnerable save and scout for 200 points.. My last game i teleported in and lost an engagement to Iron warrior artillery formation of four units. Mandrakes should be Scary I hope..

Love the Idea of a portable Gate but think it could be really deadly combined with the regular gate and all the dark eldar first stike potential . I could see my opponent just having a miserable experience handling the gate situation.

Just some thoughts to keep this thread going - sorry for the delay in communication


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:33 pm 
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Dave wrote:
What else am I missing?

There's other changes too:
The Raider and Ravager stats are different also and there's a second smaller one stand transport the Venom (Vyper transport variant)
As well as the standard fixed webway portal there's the option for a one use portable webway portal that adds a new tactical option.
The Executioner landing barge thingy has different stats also.
Spacecraft are different.


I played against Epic UK DE last weekend at a tournament with my Tau and I'm pretty familiar with the list. Overall I think the Epic UK list is a better / more fitting list to represent the DE than the current Net-EA list. It does lack the big free beast (which always seemed a poor idea backgroundwise to me) though the loss of the Tormentor is sadder.

The Epic UK DE list is overall a balanced list but it's not perfect as some units are underpowered - Haemunculus formation is terrible and needs to be cheaper or better to ever be used competitvely. Ditto the ones on skyboards.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:58 pm 
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Most of that stuff Norto didn't mention though, my question was with regards to what he wanted to bring over.

How is it more fitting?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Dave wrote:
How is it more fitting?


I think the Epic UK list is more fitting in a bunch of small ways:
It’s a closer match for representing a current 40k DE list with the fighter and bomber 40k players would be used to (and that have good stats that make them interesting in the list like the 4BP barrage with lance the bombers have).
Ditching the giant fighting beast (there’s never been any hint in official background that DE use such giant beasts in their armies and to make it free so every DE army auto includes the silly thing makes it more annoying).
Adding newer DE units like the Venom and the second sort of haemonucli creation add a bit more flavour and variety.
The Epic-UK DE list doesn’t allow you to bulk out Warrior or Wych formations with extra Warriors or Wyches so the formations stay small-medium and are easier to break or wipe out, fitting the DE as hard hitting but very fragile ‘glass sledgehammer’ theme.
The portable webway portal (something they often use in 40k) adds a new interesting tactical option to the list.
The Epic UK landing mobile has been toned down (2 x 60cm AA is WAY OTT and could ruin many enemy army’s air elements removing a key downside in AA defence a DE usually has) and dropping to 5+ reinforced armour keep it fragile as fits the theme.
Making the Archon mandatory but important (scores BTS if killed) seems thematic for the highly selfish DE.

I think the current Net-EA is list is decent, I just think the Epic UK version is overall an improvement and a better representation for the faction (and I’m not biased towards Epic UK - I appreciate both sets of lists in different ways and much prefer the Net-EA marine list for example).


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:07 pm 
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Hi GlynG,

I think from re-reading the above, that Norto is looking to work off Jim's DEV list that's been kicking around here for a few years, rather than the NetEA approved list. I understand it's closer to the UK version. I'd be interested to see your take on that one.

And it looks (to me) like most of the comments relate to that list as well.

Is that right Norto? Dave? coach?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:34 am 
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I was under the impression originally when Jim release the list it was to replace the existing dark eldar. Understand that its not a normal netEA thing to do as it ruins peoples current collections. We can always just keep going with Jim's list and tweak it a little. Id just rather see consistency on the lists. It gets super confusing to see 2 lists with the same units with different names and stats.

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