Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Biel-Tan v4.0
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24102		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Biel-Tan v4.0
Here is a PDF of the Biel-Tan Craftworld list including the following changes from the Compendium:
Engine of Vaul formation cost: One EoV for250 + 0-2 more at +200 each.
Scorpion Pulsars get three shots.
Titan Pulsars get three shots.
Cobras regain Ignore Cover
Howling Banshees get CC, MW against INF only.

Other concerns that have been raised: Fire Prisms, Phoenix Bombers. These will be addressed soon if neccessary.

Let me know of any other concerns you have relating to this list in particular, as well as any concerns with formatting/proofreading (I had to make the text in the tables 6pt to have a hope of fitting everything on one page).

Attachments:
EldarRef4.0.pdf [137.94 KiB]
Downloaded 531 times
Biel-TanList4.0.pdf [116.14 KiB]
Downloaded 410 times
Author:  LordotMilk [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
My concerns:

- Exarchs are not internally balanced, with a VERY strong bent towards Dark Reapers.

- Fire prisms should be repriced and/or see their range increased.

Other things could use some price adjustments but the general understanding is that it would lead to too much tinkering.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
I'm seriously considering pricing the Prisms the same as the Falcons and Firestorms, but I need to do some more research first.

Exarchs will probably see some changes too, but I'm not sure what yet.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Incidentally, I need to fix some typos in the lists - mostly cut-n-paste errors. I'll try to upload corrected verions tonight.
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Fire Prisms are contentious as I am sure you know, and you should explain your thinking carefully on the stats as well as the costs. My strong preference would be to return to the original Fire Prism stats and formation of three for 250.

IMO the Swords of Vaul formation has tended to cause more problems than it solves, especially with regards to Fire Prisms. Suggest reverting to the original Falcons formation + Fire Storms.

Warwalkers reduction is worth watching, I am not sure that it has been fully tested especially in a "Popcorn" style list.

EoV price reduction seems to be the way people want to go, though I remain unconvinced.

Phoenix Bombers are not worth 400 points. They are more like 350, and possibly even less.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Uploaded list with some typo corrections to OP. No other changes at this time.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
I've uploaded a reference sheet to the OP and edited it with the changes I've implemented.

To summarize unit changes:

Increased number of shots on Scorpion and Titan Pulsars.
Added Power Swords to Howling Banshees, giving them CCMW against INF only *edit: oh, and Banshee CC dropped back to 3+

Not addressed yet: Phoenix Bombers, Fire Prisms, Exarchs.

This list is now complete, so let's get testing!
Author:  Irisado [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Will there be a separate thread for testing, or should testing results be reported here?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
I'd be concerned that the EoV price reduction isn't enough for the 2nd one (450 for 2, probably ok, 650 for 3 is probably overpriced, IMO), but it's a step in the right direction.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd be concerned that the EoV price reduction isn't enough for the 2nd one (450 for 2, probably ok, 650 for 3 is probably overpriced, IMO), but it's a step in the right direction.


Testing will tell.

I think it will be fine - compare three Void Spinners to an Artillery Company, or three Scorpions to a pair of Revenants.

Three Void Spinners put out the same BP as an Arty Company, but with Disrupt. Of course their maximum range is half that of the Artillery and they don't have an alternate firing mode, but the fact they are Skimmer WEs with Reinforced Armor makes up for that.

Scorpions get 9x MW2+ shots at 60cm instead of 8x MW3+ shots at 45cm, but the Revenants get better CC/FF, Holofields, and better mobility. Less DC total though.

Both seem at first glance to be a wash to me, but testing is required - EoVs are one of the things I want to make a priority in my own testing.
Author:  LordotMilk [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
For the Scorpion, having tried the 3x 2+, I really think 3x3+ is powerful enough and more appropriate.

On another topic, I saw your change for the banshees. If it is to stay, could we perhaps make it a special ability, that other units could have? Call it Power Weapons or some such.

It could then be used for all kinds of infantry that have Power weapons as standard wep and not give the impression of a special rule.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
That would be for the NetERC to decide.

Howling Banshees are in such a unique situation I'd question whether any other unit would benefit from such a rule. Banshees have such a narrow niche (heavy infantry hunting) there are few other ways to represent it without adding unintended abilities (e.g. Tank Hunting, light infantry hunting) and stepping on the toes of closely related units - the other Aspect Warriors.
Author:  Kyrt [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
That would be for the NetERC to decide.

Howling Banshees are in such a unique situation I'd question whether any other unit would benefit from such a rule. Banshees have such a narrow niche (heavy infantry hunting) there are few other ways to represent it without adding unintended abilities (e.g. Tank Hunting, light infantry hunting) and stepping on the toes of closely related units - the other Aspect Warriors.

It has come up before in the context of genestealers.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
So we're giving the pulsar weapons a guaranteed 3 shots on the heaviest hitters, yet the original pulse weapon rule is overpowered?

Maybe somebody can explain this to me, because my brachiosaur sized brain isn't comprehending the logic on that one.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biel-Tan v4.0
Quote:
the original pulse weapon rule is overpowered?

The original pulse rule wasn't changed due to being overpowered.

It was changed due to promoting the "wrong style of play" for the Eldar - one based on "stand-still-and-shoot" gunlines instead of "move-shoot-move" flowing dancy dance.

Balance had nothing much to do with it.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/