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Cobra SHT

 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:41 am 
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Dirty Boots wrote:
650 pt for 3 would be the right and the fair cost IMHO

They're not worth 650 I think.

Compare the firepower, armour, and general utility you get out of a Revenant Titan pair. For 650 pts they are IMO a better buy than 3 Scorpions.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:09 pm 
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You cannot compare WE with titans becase of all the other 'goodies' that Titans get :). For example, I am pretty sure that most people would take a pair of Warhounds over an IG Super Heavy Tank company, just as they would take a single Warhound over a single SHT. The point is that the different formations are really designed for different strategic and tactical uses.

The real question for the Eldar EoV is more like asking whether we should ban singlton IG Warhounds and SHT, or equally whether we should adopt similar cost reductions for using EoV formations with multiples:-

Eg 250 each, or 500 for three . . . .

(and I remain unconvinced this is necessary ;))

(And what about singlton Revenants . . . . . BUT that is another question altogether :D )


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:47 pm 
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I love IG SHT Co's and rarely take 500pt warhound pair squadrons.

Singleton revenants are in my craftworld Mymeara list, which has a few groups playing it now...

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos on Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I love IG SHT Co's and rarely take 500pt warhound pair squadrons.

Singleton revenants are in my craftworld Mymeara list, which has a few groups playing it now...


Which IG SHT do you take in Cos and why?

I take them sometimes, but I can't say I love them.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:24 pm 
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I'm with E&C on this, I barely ever take warhound packs, I'd much rather take a SHT co (2 baneblade, 1 shadowsword, 1 hydra) but if I had to choose I'd probably pick a single warhound over a single shadowsword.....

It's all about scale, 3 SHTs are a formiddable prospect and synergise well in their main role (shooting) but warhounds don't gain an awful lot, they pack a punch with their guns, but I find that they work best as fast harassment units, so adding a second one isn't a great boost in this area, plus having an extra activation and being able to separate them is well worth the extra 50 points in this regard

So how does this compare wth eldar SHTs? I'd almost never use them without a significant points reduction as having a BTS with 6DC, a moderate 5+ RA save, no shields and a move of 25cm is too big of a risk and means you'll need to bring titans if you want to avoid this

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:22 pm 
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I would consider taking multiples of all variants if discounts were available. Except cobras :) And even if cobras were better, 3 in particular simply are barely any better than 2.

Is there an FAQ about using combined assaults out of multiple gates at the same time?

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Each gate may only be used by one formation per turn (failure to activate does not count as being used). So, if you have a formation of three Storm serpents in position with a farseer on the table, then in theory you could triple retain and have three formations come out of the web-way - though in practice this would be highly unlikely to happen.

However, you may not use commander to get a simultaneous assault out of two gates irrespective of their proximity, because the formations are not deemed to be in 'command' distance when in the web-way (and this is in the FAQ).


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:10 am 
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Ginger wrote:
Each gate may only be used by one formation per turn (failure to activate does not count as being used). So, if you have a formation of three Storm serpents in position with a farseer on the table, then in theory you could triple retain and have three formations come out of the web-way - though in practice this would be highly unlikely to happen.
youre right, unlikely. To use 3, you'd need to leave the SHTs exposed to an enemy activation. This also raises another rules question - why does the farseer need to be on the board at the beginning. He could be the second formation to come out of the gate. In fact, whilst special abilities may not be used off board, there is a specific exception to those directly affecting the unit with the ability. The example in the FAQ is the retain bonus for farseers, so I guess it is open to debate whether it also applies to the triple retain. I don't have the book available, I expect the farsight rule itself says "on the board", right?

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However, you may not use commander to get a simultaneous assault out of two gates irrespective of their proximity, because the formations are not deemed to be in 'command' distance when in the web-way (and this is in the FAQ).
I can't find that in the master FAQ, any help?

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Dirty Boots wrote:
650 pt for 3 would be the right and the fair cost IMHO

They're not worth 650 I think.

Compare the firepower, armour, and general utility you get out of a Revenant Titan pair. For 650 pts they are IMO a better buy than 3 Scorpions.


I would pay 650 for 3 Scorpions at 3 shots each, or 3 shots 3+ 75 cm.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:32 pm 
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RAW I would say that getting the Farseer onto the table in the 1st or 2nd (retained) activation would permit the Eldar player to retain again for his 3rd activation.


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
RAW I would say that getting the Farseer onto the table in the 1st or 2nd (retained) activation would permit the Eldar player to retain again for his 3rd activation.


Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:36 am 
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I've been reading through the Forge World Mymeara book on my mobile in the evenings at the farm and I just noticed that the 40k Cobra has a crucial ability that makes it such a deadly war-machine kilter - it's D-Cannon ignores enemy titan void or power fields, in a similar way a Warp Missile does.

Rather them any other change to its stats can we just adopt this for the Epic Cobra please? It would make it deadlier against its primary target, while having no effect on other units.


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:41 am 
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GlynG wrote:
Rather them any other change to its stats can we just adopt this for the Epic Cobra please? It would make it deadlier against its primary target, while having no effect on other units.


I think it's a very good idea!

However, Eldar have plenty of AT firepower, so void shields can be taken out pretty quickly. Is it enough of a boost?


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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:43 am 
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Interesting idea.
I'd rather that than the current "ignores cover vs war engines" rule if it has to have a special rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Cobra SHT
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:47 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Interesting idea.
I'd rather that than the current "ignores cover vs war engines" rule if it has to have a special rule.


Ignore Cover might still be necessary. Single Cobras have so poor to-hit values that a titan with a toe in the woods halves the effectiveness of the d-cannon.


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