Tactical Command
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Revenant Pulsars
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23366		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Flogus [ Wed May 30, 2012 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Revenant Pulsars
In some previous versions, the Revenant Pulsar was 2xMW4+ @45cm.
Now, in the Compendium, it is 2xMW3+ @45cm.

So, it it a typo in the Compendium, or it is really 2xMW3+ officially ?
Author:  Ginger [ Wed May 30, 2012 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
I have been looking back; the original Swordwind stats were 2x Pulse Lasers 2x MW3+, in 2010 the draft was the same, and the E-UK stats are the same. So, while I have a vague recollection of the original discussion proposing MW4+ on the SG boards in 2008, I am not sure that it was ever implemented.

Where did you think it was MW4+?
Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed May 30, 2012 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
IIRC they were moved to MW4+ due to them being OP on doubling etc. Can't say as to when they were changed. 2008 errata...? <shrug>
Author:  Dave [ Thu May 31, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
It's not in the NetEA 2008 Tournament mods PDF I have. And the only reference on these forums to it was Flogus again here:

viewtopic.php?p=417162#p417162

I'm remembering the same thing about the MW4+ though, can't find it anywhere here however.
Author:  Ulrik [ Thu May 31, 2012 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
I'm pretty sure the move to MW4+ was considered because MW3+ was too good under the old Pulse rule (get another attack if you hit). Unless testing with the new Pulse rules (2x shots) have shown them to still be a problem they should stay MW3+.
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
Well I do recall if being hashed out, however with the 2 Shots I think MW3+ is fine....I haven't really seen much whining about it. I think the Warlock Powerfist is more of an issue.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
Is Chroma around to answer questions anymore?
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
They were MW4+ in the EA Compendium 2.1 http://www.scribd.com/doc/88413005/Ea-C ... m-2-1-en-1 but I'm not sure of the provenance of the docs used to make it. Still, if everyone's been using MW3+, including EUK, without anyone spitting kittens over it, I'd guess that it's fine as is.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Is Chroma around to answer questions anymore?


Last logged in a week ago. Last post (AC and ERC-only foums excluded) a month ago. Second to last post in January.

We may get lucky.
Author:  dptdexys [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
IIRC under the old pulse rules MW3+ was seen as discouraging an Eldar style of play, especially Hit and Run.

It was better to sustain fire with the possibility of getting up to 12 MW attacks when only needing 2+ to hit than it was to use hit and run where the to hit value dropped to 4+,5+ or even 6+ and the possibility of just a couple of extra attacks if any at all.
In games Eldar were seen as trading fire with opponents instead of using hit and run tactics which was not seen as an Eldar play style.

As I remember it MW4+ was seen as a way of making sustain fire less of a no brainer activation.
Without such a high probability of making lots of hits it was better to hit the opponent and run to safety thus making it harder for them to retaliate (seen as an Eldar style) than it was to just stand and trade fire (not seen as an Eldar style).

With the new Pulse rule brought in during the rules review players got 8 attacks guaranteed and hit and run tactics was seen as viable and encouraged an Eldar style of play.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Is Chroma around to answer questions anymore?

Yep, here I am! :geek

Revenant pulse lasers are supposed to be 2xMW3+; I believe the MW4+ was a typo that snuck into things at one stage. Such a change was talked about briefly, but not in any depth, that I recall, but I think it would make Revenants over costed and not a good choice. The Titan Power Fist is certainly something that can be discussed in comparison!

With MW3+, on a double (to keep them out of return fire trouble, natch!) that's averaging four hits against a target not in cover. I don't think that's overpowering for a 650 point formation (yes, there are other bells and whistles in there). Are people having overwhelming success with Revenants that is causing concern?
Author:  Dirty Boots [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
Hello,

1st, sorry for the necromancy trick.

I briefly introduced myself on the topic talking about the titan pulsars.

I am thinking about a change in the armament of revenants titan (cause in F-ERC list, we played it with the MA4+ to hit). Since the increase of the score required to hit and the transition to the new rule pulsar. For players who use almost exclusively on hit and run with these units (like me ...), they are not really very good at that pair costing. I'll probably make you scream, but it is part of the design that I made ​​on the eldar list so that it is as balanced as possible.

What I propose to myself to start is to restore its 3 + to hit but against part, he can not receive the sustain order. I explain it by the fact of its low armor, against which he must maximize his chances of survival are constantly in motion. This is fluff and fun.

Hope that will help you.
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Revenant Pulsars
I do not have access to the F-ERC statistics, but if they have adopted the "pulsar rule" where all pulsars get 2x shots, then I would strongly recommend returning to MW3+ (MA3+). We have played this for many years in the UK tournaments and there have not been any complaints. There is no need to add the rule preventing Sustaining.

There are several reasons why Revenants need to move rather than Sustain.
  • If used, Revenants are likely to be the BTS in all games up to 4200 points (where you can also take a Phantom). This in turn means that they must be used conservatively, which does not mean staying in one place sustaining (where they can be targeted).
  • While Revenants do pack a punch, they are also quite brittle. Consequently they need to move behind terrain when not shooting - making best use of 'Hit-&-Run'.
  • Eldar need to have a high activation count to work effectively. But they also need to have several formations that support their strategy. The cost of the Revenants is equivalent to 3-4 other formations, which impacts their activation superiority. This in turn means the other formations are weaker and less able to advance in support of stationary Revenants.
I hope this makes sense.
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