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Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21569		 Page 1 of 12
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Hello Eldar Titan Players!

Here is the newest list for the Eldar Titan Clan. Has some updates and changes as listed below and in the back of the PDF. My hope is that the list will swell with playtest and feedback so it might make into Epic: Mechcanium (?) later this year that Evil and Chaos is making, but also to have an NetEA Approved Eldar Titan list too! ::)

I adding the Support Platforms variety finally. Had been planning on doing that for awhile now. Give's the feel that the Titan's have little to no support from the other Craftworlds. They got some Guardians with Weapon Platforms, some Rangers that were roaming, some baby Titan's like Wraithlords and some Navy and Knight Support.

I really don't know what to do with Knights other than what it is now. I don't have any, plus I don't really know much fluff about them so any feedback or suggestions are welcomed! They don't warrant their own list right? Should they be with Exodites??

I also dropped the Phantasm Titan because the idea just wasn't working.

I adjusted upgrades a bit to make more sense. Eldar just don't really have cool toys like AMTL! :P I also adjusted the weapons and prices. I have no feedback from them really and right now I'm guessing here! Also dropped the Sword since FW has kinda of dropped the ball on it. Maybe if stats ever come out for it then it can be revisited.

Well that's the news, hope to hear feedback and playtests!

Here's the list!

Updated 2.2.1 for Typos

Attachments:
Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan_V2.2.1.pdf [319.22 KiB]
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Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Quote:
I also adjusted the weapons and prices. I have no feedback from them really and right now I'm guessing here!

All my concerns http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?p=397940#p397940 still apply. Do Revenants really need a BP weapon that ignores cover, ignores reinforced armour and disrupts...?
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
As written the Phantom can take a Psychic Lance. You may want to add an exclusion to the notes.

Nitpick: I like the Titan Autarch, but Exarch has a very specific meaning that does not apply to Titans. Perhaps Veteran Steersman?

Nothing new under the sun: Too few weapons, too many BP, too many TK, not enough general shooting. And the best of those happens to be on the PF, which is also a frightening Engage weapon. It's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Kind of like adding non-canon weapons. *sigh*
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
why are revenants no longer able to be fielded in pairs? (i suggest that pairs be a core formation, but solos be a support formation to cut down on spam)
why cant a warlock titan take spirit stones?
where are the rules for platform Dcannons?

and can we please do something about power fists? (moreso than sonic lances, power fists are the real balance problem here)
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Dobbsy wrote:
Do Revenants really need a BP weapon that ignores cover, ignores reinforced armour and disrupts...?
Well I haven't seen any real feedback so....I don't know! ::) I guess dropping Lance might be good? That how I found the stats if IIRC. BlackLegion are tho's direct or similar to the 40k stats? (Might have ask and answered that before) I think BP, Disrupt and Ignore Cover are valid tho.

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Phantom can take a Psychic Lance.

Doh! I knew I forgot something! Good Catch!

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I like the Titan Autarch, but Exarch has a very specific meaning that does not apply to Titans. Perhaps Veteran Steersman?

I have been battling with the names! Hopefully something will come up that sound good and Eldar ish but in till then I think it works. My last names conflicted with other lists! :'(

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Too few weapons, too many BP, too many TK, not enough general shooting. And the best of those happens to be on the PF, which is also a frightening Engage weapon. It's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Kind of like adding non-canon weapons. *sigh*

I'm not sure what to do there. Maybe some of the weapons there could be modified better? Are they true stats? Maybe making up weapons is the only choice? *Sigh* It does seem like all they have is TK BP weapons but what to do? Drop some?

As for the Powerfist. I PM Master Chroma for some advice and the likely hood if the change might carry over to the over lists. I don't want to mess with the PowerFist if it will be different to the other lists. I recommend dropping the Shooting attack or the FF attacks. I favor the former I think? Or maybe just tone down the shooting attack?

Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
why are revenants no longer able to be fielded in pairs?

Good Catch yet again! Man I must be tired! My plan was to make it an upgrade rather than having 2 entries for Core Choices, just a different bookkeeping idea but I forgot to add it later on when I was came back to the upgrades, lol!

Version 2.2.1 will be posted sooner than later I guess!

Thanks for the feedback guys!
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
why cant a warlock titan take spirit stones?
where are the rules for platform Dcannons?

and can we please do something about power fists? (moreso than sonic lances, power fists are the real balance problem here)

1) Because it has Inspring built into the Titan like the other lists.
2) In the main book but there listed as Support Platforms.
3) I mention about the Power Fist. Seems to be a hott spot for some and I agree.

Posted 2.2.1 in OP
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
1: not in the stat summary it aint. i prefer the option of leaving it off (or rather, making people pay for it)
2: ah
3: i think sonic lances could do with a mild nerfing. lance doesnt add much but its also probably not enough of a hit.
i'd suggest pairing revenant weapons (so its either 2 pulse lasers, or 2 sonic lances) which would allow you to make the sonic lance weapon a 3BP between the two which would hit them quite significantly i'd think
as to the fists, yeah, the problem is that the fist is good at all 3 methods of combat, which makes it an easy choice. i'd happily run dual-fist phantoms, secure in the knowledge that i'll be suited to any sort of engagement except long range anti-titan shooting wars...
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
1: not in the stat summary it aint. i prefer the option of leaving it off (or rather, making people pay for it)

Look again! ::)

Sonic Lances may or may not need tweaking, not sure yet and really there are bigger fish to fry atm like the Powerfist and making other Battle Titan weapons viable.
Author:  Flogus [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
I don't really like the new support platforms.
I know the minis are available, but it goes to far in the details.
And the Shadow Weaver platform seems really powerful! It only has 1 'weaver' and has a firepower of 1 BP. The Nightspinner, with its 2 'weavers', has only 1 BP.

And you should include the profiles of the knights in the PDF.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Here are the stats for the support weapons that I would start with, based on their abilities in 40k.

shadow weaver 30cm AP5/AT6 indirect fire
vibrocannon 30cm BP1 disrupt

The range of my shadow weaver stats exceeds the 40k version, but it's close enough for government work. Also, I don't know how balanced these are vs. the vanilla D-cannon platform. I think a noble goal would be for them to all have the same point cost, so stats may need revising.

With regards to the sonic lances, I think that the sonic lances' most important feature is the 2BP. The reason being that the revenant lacks the ability to deal with massed infantry. That means they either need a BP weapon or they need a high rate-of-fire weapon. Making the sonic lance a BP weapon is more plausible than the other option. The special rules are just there to balance them out against the pulsars.

If 2BP + special rules make them better than 2 x MW4+, then lose some of the special abilities. I would like to keep the ability for a dual sonic lance titan to drop 2 templates per shooting phase. Without that, I doubt the lances will ever be as good as the pulsars. If that proves problematic, you could drop the range on the sonic lances to 30cm, to keep the revenant 'honest'.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Actually thr Sonic Lances have such a short range in Wh40k (18") that i rather see them as a FF-only weapon in Epic. Or 15cm range at most. IIRC it has the same range as the Inferno Gun for Titans.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Yeah, but the 18" range is to the start of the template, which is 16.5" inch long. So, it can almost reach the range of a heavy bolter.

Of course, you could split the difference and have the sonic lances be a 15cm BP weapon + some benefit in FF. Then people would use the sonic revenants in the same way people use SM land speeders - double into support range, lay down BMs on target formation, then retain and assault with a second formation.

Also, sonic lances probably ought to have the ignore cover ability, too, but like I said before, use the special weapon abilities to balance them against the pulsars first.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
No. You have to place the entire template within those 18".
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
According to Apocalypse, you're wrong, BL.

Apocalypse, p140 wrote:
* To fire the Sonic Lance, place the Hellstorm Template so that the narrow end is within 18" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end.
Author:  zombocom [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
Basically that's the same as the Inferno cannon, which is a 30cm BP weapon in epic.
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