Eh, Phantom Titans are somewhat underpowered compared to Warlocks IMO.
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| Author: | LordotMilk [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Phantom Titan |
I cannot find a use for the Phantom Titan, independently of the list I use (NetEA, Epic Uk, FERC). The Archon Titan is miles better in Assault and suppot. The Revenants/Scorpions/Falcons are miles better in shooting down stuff. More precisely, the MW 3+ of the measly 4 shots of the phantom pulsars are just too debilitating. Shouldn't he have MW 2 + on his pulsars? Thanks in adavcne for the answers, LotM. |
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
LordotMilk wrote: I cannot find a use for the Phantom Titan, independently of the list I use (NetEA, Epic Uk, FERC). The Archon Titan is miles better in Assault and suppot. The Revenants/Scorpions/Falcons are miles better in shooting down stuff. More precisely, the MW 3+ of the measly 4 shots of the phantom pulsars are just too debilitating. Shouldn't he have MW 2 + on his pulsars? Thanks in adavcne for the answers, LotM. What is a Archon Titan? I don't recall it in the NetEA list and I don't think its in the EUK list either but I could be wrong. Now a Warlock Titan is an awesome Assault Titan. But Phantom gives you good long range fire on a Battle Titan Platform. Also not every unit needs to be "Awesome Uber Crazy" like in 40k |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Eh, Phantom Titans are somewhat underpowered compared to Warlocks IMO.
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Evil and Chaos wrote: Eh, Phantom Titans are somewhat underpowered compared to Warlocks IMO. Where my Werewold Beating club when I need it!??!?  What would you suggest in fixing them? Or do they need fixing? Is it the Pulsar? Or the Powerfist(Ha!)?? Btw I have just spent the night updating the ETC list. I just haven't figured out a few issues but hopefully be posted in the next few days for awesome testing!! 
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
A minor points drop would probably be fine. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
IMO looking at Phantom titans in isolation at 750 they are fine, and as the centrepoint for building a list around they are fine - using the triple retain rolling assault. The problem is if you compare them to the Warlock as it is a lot better for only 100pts more. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Quote: The problem is if you compare them to the Warlock as it is a lot better for only 100pts more. Is a Warlock overpowered for its points though? If not, then the Phantom is most probably underpowered for its own points cost, if it compares so badly that it's pretty much never taken. No? |
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| Author: | Angel_of_Caliban [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Evil and Chaos wrote: A minor points drop would probably be fine. That wouldn't throw off my new matrix or anything! I'm not sure bumping the Warlock to 875 or 900 would make much of a change. Dropping the Phantom to 725 might work. But 700 I think would to dramatic as that would allow 1 Phantom and 1 Nightwing Squad in 3k games. But then again maybe that is what needed to make Phantom's more viable compared to Warlocks? Hmmmm............ |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
I think the Phantom just gets squeezed by the other Eldar titans. Reventants are shootier and cheaper, while Warlocks are better in assault and not much more expensive - the Phantom kind of does both but neither as well as its competitors. Saying that, a friend of mine plays a phantom in nearly every game (he needs it to bulk up to 3k!) and has had great success using it to snipe out WE and RA in the first few turns before doubling it across the centre line towards the end. |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Im not as convinced about the warlock. Sure it's an assault monster but it's.... expensive. The Phantom pulsars may only be 3+, but each puts out 2 titan killer shots at 75cm which gives the Phantom a reasonable chance of being able to sustain fire. They would make short work of russes, land raiders, terminators etc but admittedly it's a fairly specific set of targets. If you give it a power fist, it can take a hybrid role. 9x 3+ FF or 6x3+ & 2x3+TK(D3) CC is nothing to sniff at. Sadly on sustain fire the Phantom suffers from the change to the Pulse rule, the effect of which is magnified if it has 2 pulsars. This is what swings the balance IMO. I'm not sure what would help other than 2+ to hit, more shots, or perhaps Ignore Cover, which would give it a slight boost on the to hit roll without actually changing it. I don't think it's far off points wise though. As it stands a shooty Phantom is directly comparable to 3 scorpions, which put out 6x MW2+ at 60cm - the scorpions have more shots, better to hit, more DC, but lower range, initiative 2+, don't have holofields, degrade under fire, don't have AA. Against revenants, it is better at shooting (much higher range, TK), has RA, doesn't degrade under fire and better in assault, but is slower and more expensive. |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
I don't see a reason to change it. I've never seen one in play and thought "Oooh, that's underpowered...." It does fine for the role it brings to the table. If players want to choose a Warlock over a Phantom it's because they do so with a specific task in mind. If you want heavy long range shooting you don't choose the Warlock and you get a Phantom cheaper saving you points to spend elsewhere. Perhaps the Warlock is under priced.... |
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| Author: | Kyrt [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Dobbsy wrote: Perhaps the Warlock is under priced.... Not sure, it's pretty expensive as it is and somewhat of a one trick pony. Should it really be more than a Warlord? Maybe the power fist doesn't need all those shooting attacks... |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Kyrt wrote: Dobbsy wrote: Perhaps the Warlock is under priced.... Not sure, it's pretty expensive as it is and somewhat of a one trick pony. Should it really be more than a Warlord? Maybe the power fist doesn't need all those shooting attacks... The shooting attacks are really irrelevant its the speed+FF that make it brilliant. IMO the Warlock+aspects and guardians mounted in aspects army is the most powerful in EA. Assault something in FF with the Warlock and then move to support 2 assaults with the double retain and the mounted units. The only thing that stops it is that at least one game in a tourney you will fail to activate the guardians and the whole thing collapses. The netEA Ulthwe list will be fantastic/overpowered/broken at this as you will be able to activate all the units - warlock, black guardians, black guardians without rolling a dice as they are all initiative 1 (plus a better SR). |
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| Author: | Icapica [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
I'm building an Eldar army as I got a huge bunch of old Eldar miniatures a few months ago for only 15 euros. There's one Phantom included. As titans are pretty bad ass, I definitely want to use it. Are there any good tips for getting the most out of it? I have a bunch of various aspect warriors (though not very many of any single aspect, 2-4 of most), a huge amount of Guardians, enough transports, some rangers and plenty of jetbikes and both kinds of weapon platforms. I'm going to order an Avatar and maybe something else if necessary today as next week we'll play with friends and I want to have everything at least assembled and primed before it. |
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| Author: | MikeT [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phantom Titan |
Try to keep it in cover as much as possible; walker will mean it shouldn't normally take damage, and that -1 to hit, combined with the 3+ holofield will mean it's tough to actually damage. At 750 points, it's going to be the centrepiece of your army, and your BTS, so plan your strategy around it. It's not as assault orientated as the Warlock, but 6 3+ FF isn't anything to sneeze at, try and use if for support fire whist still shooting things. |
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