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| Warlock Titan fair? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17855 |
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| Author: | stompzilla [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Just wondering what the general consensus is concerning this beast?  I have had it mentioned to me tonight that some people find it to be underpriced which was a new one on me - I've never heard anyone complain about it before. Personally I think it's fairly priced.  It's very expensive, short ranged and quite fragile when compared with mega gargants and Warlord titans and it packs much less shooting power. At 3000 pts it also completely rules out any Eldar air power, which is something else you don't get with gargants and Imperial titans.  However if you can get him involved in a few engagements he turns into a monster.  I actually really like that Eldar titans are different in this respect and are less about shooting and more about engagements, it's very characterful. Anyway, thoughts, opinions? (Also, how do you add polls?  I can't seem to find an option for it) |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
We were discussing this the other evening - that the Warlock is overpowered or undercosted. Basically it can do anything - shooting (range is made up for by speed), FF and CC and even has its own AA. Compare it to any other large titan and it is considerably better. When players have practiced with it and perfected what forces to surround it with to maximise it in assaulting and supporting assaults then all that can stop it is the other activations failing to activate Our local eldar players would still pick it at 1000pts |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Having said all that no Warlock Eldar list has won a tournament yet. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Quote: (Rug @ Feb. 05 2010, 09:17 ) It's both a massive threat and a big opportunity to opponents who are familiar with what it can do. It's fragile and only has 6DC, twin this with short range weapons and a savvy player can take it out before it's even been able to fire a shot... unlike other titans it's not much of a threat turn 1. Scout screens and OW do rather ruin a Warlock's rampage too! Epic FR believe Eldar titans to be too fragile and have changed the Critical so the holofield remains in play! If you are using orks, IG or eldar - SM or BL have virtually no way to deal with it unless they can manage to isolate it and crossfire. The usual tactic of running away doesn't work. |
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| Author: | Irondeath [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Quote: (Mephiston @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:00 ) Having said all that no Warlock Eldar list has won a tournament yet. Not in the UK that is. My Ulthwé ruled a couple of years back: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... =24;t=8794 I agree it is a fearsome unit that can cut right through hordes of enemies, unlike anything else I can think of. Opponents need a lucky hit early on as it cannot be ignored or avoided, it is just too fast and deadly for that. |
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| Author: | alansa [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
One thing is that the warlock is considered by some to be overpowered/undercosted. But another thing is that the Phantom is pants in comparison? I was discussing this with Mark Williams at Open War (a regular Warlock user) last year and that seemed to be his opinion. He said he'd happily pay 900 for the Warlock |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Isn't the problem with the phantom really that it is more than 100pts worse than the Warlock? |
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| Author: | alansa [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Quote: (Steve54 @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:33 ) Isn't the problem with the phantom really that it is more than 100pts worse than the Warlock? Yes But how much? So either decrease the Phantom or increase the Warlock or both. When I suggested 900 for the Warlock, Mark said he'd happily pay for that. So the Phantom would now be 150 points worse than the Warlock. Still, when asked if he'd take a Phantom, he still said no. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
The problem is that the warlock combines too well with the rest of the FF happy Eldar units. The phantom is a poor choice in comparison as it doesn't do this job as well. The farsight ability on the warlock add's to its power by allowing it to retain without that annoying -1. If the titan has to change I'd change it to be an 850 point unit by changing its abilities. |
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| Author: | alansa [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
Quote: (Mephiston @ Feb. 05 2010, 10:52 ) The problem is that the warlock combines too well with the rest of the FF happy Eldar units. The phantom is a poor choice in comparison as it doesn't do this job as well. The farsight ability on the warlock add's to its power by allowing it to retain without that annoying -1. If the titan has to change I'd change it to be an 850 point unit by changing its abilities. I think you're right about that Meph. Unless you where playing a 5000 point game, you'd never consider taking a phantom. |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
The Phantom also still disallows Nightwings at 3000pts. You might as well take the Warlock because the only air unit the Phantom allows is the Vampire and that's usually better with other air support that you can't afford. Would you consider a Phantom at 700pts meaning you can take Nightwings as well. When the Eldar Titans appear usually the anti-air duty goes to them plus Firestorms, would the ability to take Nightwings as well as or instead of Firestorms be a useful incentive. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
I'd take a Phantom if I wasn't planning on playing the rolling assault eldar tactic, just not at 3000 points. |
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| Author: | stompzilla [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
I've used the Phantom for a good long while now and have found it to be an excellent titan. It does allow for some great rolling assaults and still allows you access to the vampire for air assaults. Surely a Warlord is of similar useto a Warlock. Park one of these in the centre of the board between several objectives and it's not going to be shifted. Locking up 2 and potentially 4 of the victory conditions until it's either broken or dead. There's 6 voids to go through before you even start chipping away at the 8 x 4+ RA hit points and it can reach out to 60 - 90 cm and smash fms - without the inherent risks and return attacks of engaging a unit. Doesn't the Warlock meet the eldar ideal being a vicious paper tiger? Hard as nails but fragile. Weight of fire will bring a Warlock down - on average you only need 3 hits to statistically get past the holofields, unlike imperial titans who have voids, that can regenerate and armour that requires 4 hits to statistically take off a point of damage. Warlocks are also succeptible to crossfire unlike a Warlord that has thick rear armour. I used a Warlock titan in two games yesterday and although it did cause quite a bit of carnage it died in both games. How often do Warlord titans die? A skilled opponent can bring down or break a Warlock (As it only needs 6 BMs to break) MUCH easier than a Warlord of equivelent points cost - 2 extra BMs needed and you have to go through 6 x void shields before you can even start to put damage on it. |
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| Author: | alansa [ Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Warlock Titan fair? |
The phantom is pretty good at all that. But for only 100 points more, the Warlock is a better choice, despite the disadvantages - seems to be the opinion anyway. "Only 6bms" 6 bms is quite a lot. Assuming that the average shot is 5+ then you need to direct 3 formations with 14 or so shots each to break the titan. |
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