What you want are 12 war engines, 1 aspect host and 3 guardian formations and something else
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| Help my Britcon list? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16168 |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
I'll be going to my first ever epic tournament in just under a month, using an army I have never used before and only having played one game of epic (or any wargame) in 4 years, recently versus MoK. Yey - fun times! I can has deep-end jumping :-) Not having managed to have time to paint an army like I hoped sadly, I will be borrowing all/nearly all the models (depending if I get any of my own painted in time) from a couple of forum members who are kind enough to lend them and I plan to embrace the fact it’ll be a ragtag army as a background theme – low population Exodite world calls for aid, 3 craftworlds dispatch forces. Of all armies my own Eldar army will be especially heavily themed and a bit limited, rather than being designed around the most competitive stuff. Even though I'll be borrowing others' models I'd still like to get used to using the same sorts of units as in mine, so that would be zero spacecraft, aircraft, striking scorpions, fire dragons, howling banshees or phantoms and roughly the sorts of units used below. I'd also prefer to try out a selection of different units, rather than lots of one type. I'd hope the list will be reasonably decent though and am happy to tweak some and/or address particular problem areas. I'll try to get as many practice games in with it as I can closer to the time, but how does the below look for a draft army list? 4,000 points 13 Activations Avatar - Free Wraithgate - 50 8 Shining Spears - 300 Autarch - 75 Jetbikes – 200 Guardian Warhost - 150 3 Wraithguard - 150 3 Wraithlords - 175 Guardians, 3 Heavy Weapons - 150 5 Rangers - 125 5 Rangers - 125 War Walkers - 200 Void Spinner - 250 8 Swooping Hawks (possibly Dark Reapers or Warp Spiders instead) - 300 2 Exarches - 50 Guardian Warhost - 150 Wave Serpents - 200 Falcons, 2 Fire Storms - 250 Fire Prisms - 250 Warlock Titan - 850 Is that ok, or unacceptably few, activations for Eldar? Not too sure what I'd drop if so. Do I have too much anti-air? Should I drop either the Falcons or Fire Prism unit? Would a Storm Serpent be a useful inclusion or should I keep the points for fighty stuff as is and manage with the Wraithgate? Swap the Swooping Hawks for Warp Spiders or Dark Reapers possibly? |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Is that ok, or unacceptably few, activations for Eldar? Not too sure what I'd drop if so. Given the inclusion of the Warlock, 13 activations should be fine. Do I have too much anti-air? Should I drop either the Falcons or Fire Prism unit? Actually it may be too little. Fire Prisms are notoriously brittle so tend to be kept in the rear to avoid being shot and broken. The Firestorms in the Falcon fomation are fairly easy to surpress leaving the Warlock with 2x AA5+ shots at 45cm. It just depends on what you want to achieve with the Fire Prisms, and whether you are concerned about enemy air-forces. Would a Storm Serpent be a useful inclusion or should I keep the points for fighty stuff as is and manage with the Wraithgate? Storm Serpent(s) should probably be deployed in pairs (for redundancy) and always with a Wraithgate. A single Wraithgate can be blocked (or put on a flank) which limits the potential formations that can be used, while a single Storm Serpent is relatively easy to destroy.  Swap the Swooping Hawks for Warp Spiders or Dark Reapers possibly? Warp Spiders every time (if you have eight of them). Deployed by Storm Serpent or Vampire they can be very lethal. The Warlock works best if accompanied / protected by a few formations and is an assault beast both initiating an assault and subsequently supporting others. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
When Ginger says a pair of storm serpents I think he means 2 formations of one serpent each! If you have lots of formations in the webway a lone serpent just screams kill me now! If you do drop the swooping hawks for other aspects I wonder how you will deploy them? Walking aspects are next to useless! My Britcon army only has 13 activations so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think its only going to be Marines with the 15+ activations. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
What you want are 12 war engines, 1 aspect host and 3 guardian formations and something else
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
from my limited experience: go for maximum tactical flexibility as I think this is really where Eldar shine. To that end, I try and kit out everything with transport (other than perhaps the blitz guardians), take at least one (or 2 separate, if pts allow) Storm serpents, plus wraithgate, and always make sure my SC is on the board from the get go. I'm not sure I'm qualified to suggest a particular list, but these are things I like taking: vypers - awesome for hit+run, harassment and supporting fire, never used for direct assault guardians w/ wraith constructs - always underestimated by opponents, deployed out of a wraithgate/ Sserpent with the wraithguard/ lords up front to soak up hits they are absolutely vicious. With support from a Vyper formation, once wiped out an entire LR formation. doom weavers - great for prepping an assault, cheap AA (if you're using those rules), don't expect them to be around for long guardians w/ wave serpents - put the wave serpents up front to force FF and soak up hits, suprisingly effective if used in a clipping or prepped assault storm serpent - awesome tactical flexibility, use them to fire off vypers into your opponents rear lines in early turns, then dump a tooled up guardian formation onto your opponent when and where you choose. Absolute fire magnet, so don't pin everything on it. dire avengers - often as a Vampire load out with striking scorpions (though I know you don't want these), will easily wipe out most infantry formations and put a big dent in armoured ones. Some what predictable as a vampire load out as there are only so many places/ formations you can attack. rangers - useful for protecting war engines from terminators, can't think of many other uses for them swooping hawks - essential against IG to take out artillery, pretty useless against anything else and won't last long what ever you do with them falcons - can lay down a blistering amount of short ranged fire power and useful for taking firestorms, but very fragile. never had any luck with war walkers, too slow, fragile and short ranged. Same with Dark Reapers. I'd personally think about taking: 2x vypers couple of tooled up guardian fms (usually just guardians and wraithguard, always hard to get wraithlords into CC) plus one basic guardian fm to guard blitz some long range artillery (at least 2 fms) couple of storm serpents plus a wraithgate aspects, either with wave serpents or air dropped (make sure your Autarch is on the ground though) 1x rangers at least 1 lot of falcons/ fire prisms, preferably 2 then see what points you have left over. Eldar aren't easy to play, but if you keep your opponent guessing where you're going to strike and then use overwhelming force (no piecemeal assaults, you'll get slaughtered), you should be fine Good luck!
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Somewhat more seriously, I am slightly wondering where the focus of the list is. I tend to have a way of fighting, with redundancies for it. Now the Warlock I don't think is that poor a choice. The 4000 point armies often tempt people into taking titans (though somewhat ironically its not that wise as often they face more threats that can cut them down) and the Warlock is a Titan killer par excellence. You should try and fight one or two 4000 point battles before the tourny if you can. With increased troop density the mechanics change somewhat and 3rd turn wins are harder to pull off (and Eldar suffer in long games) as there are simply more men around swamping up the titan ankle joints. 13 activations is somewhat low for me at 4000 - hell I like to have 12 at 3000! One way of thinking about the list is how you would deal with specific threats. So how to chop a great gargant. How to deal with a drop pod assault followed up with landing craft. How to crack a siege line. What to do against several SHT companies. How will you fight hordes? You have a lot of core vs support. I would suggest dumping a guardian formation, getting that other exarch and also thinking of getting something that can support your main thrust (Guardains on foot can rarely do that). |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Cheers for the responses thusfar, been helpful! I'm choosing my army from a bit more of a limited a palette than usual, but keep on changing my mind considerably what to take within that and what to try to do with them. My list above just went for a little of lots of different units, without much of a plan. I need to get some games in really. My own Eldar's proxy themeness normally prevents me having Vypers too unfortunately (or Jetbikes thinking about it), so I'd prefer to build an army without them. Lots of Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks though and maybe I could use Falcons instead for similar things. Can an Eldar army manage without Storm Serpents and a minimal or maybe even no web presence? Or is that too tactically limiting and 2 Storm Serpents should be pretty much mandatory? Not sure which way I'll go yet, but just wondering. How good are the different super-heavies? Another possible army I'm toying with involves building an army around multiple individual Void Spinners (I have models to field up to 6 of them) with suitable support, no titans, perhaps minimal or no web presence. Any good? |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Can an Eldar army manage without Storm Serpents and a minimal or maybe even no web presence? Or is that too tactically limiting and 2 Storm Serpents should be pretty much mandatory? Not sure which way I'll go yet, but just wondering. How good are the different super-heavies? Another possible army I'm toying with involves building an army around multiple individual Void Spinners (I have models to field up to 6 of them) with suitable support, no titans, perhaps minimal or no web presence. Any good? Eldar need mobility to make use of their greatest weapon, Hit-and-run. The can make a very respectable army without Storm Serpents or gates, but then the shape and tactics of the army changes. As TRC says, Infantry on foot are too slow. Aspects generally operate best with transport, though Shining Spears can be used to reduce the cost of Wave Serpents (no-one takes Falcons). Super-Heavies can be very good, but have multiple roles. Singlton Cobras can be very effective anti-infantry weapons, while in pairs they can be devastating against Titans. Individual Void Spinners are better than IG batteries and Scorpions in pairs can put a lot of MW shots down-range. Storm Serpents have very good AT shooting as a secondary role after tranporting troops and all have reasonable speed for contesting objectives. An army based on Void Spinners would be 'novel', though it would be rather static (sustained firing leaves 1500 points of artillery in one place), so you would be splitting the army somewhat. And the Eldar artillery is just as vulnerable to air assault and teleporters as the IG equivalent. Not sure it would work, but why not give it a go with a friend? |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Quote: (GlynG @ 18 Jul. 2009, 01:25 ) Can an Eldar army manage without Storm Serpents and a minimal or maybe even no web presence? Or is that too tactically limiting and 2 Storm Serpents should be pretty much mandatory? Not sure which way I'll go yet, but just wondering. I rarely use Storm Serpents, but I almost always take a Wraithgate. If you've got fast formations, then you don't "need" a Wraithgate. I like it to hold a Warp Spider Aspect Warhost and maybe a single formation of Windriders... acts as a deterent for the enemy to get close, but they certainly aren't necessary. |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
2 formations that I've found to be well worth their points- Vampire - empty-used for going after small or isolated formations. A great ground attack unit. Rangers - Really cheap, a formation of 6 in cover can be a real problem to shift, also good as a blitz guard on OW |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
I'm all for the SHT list, tis one I've been toying with for a while. Flak wise you said no aircraft, how many firestorms can you have? And are you sure about absolutely no aircraft (fighters, vampires) and spacecraft? |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Thanks again for the comments! I suspect I’m more likely to go for a more conventional army, but your super-heavy army could be an interesting possibility to think/test out TRC. I have access to these: 2 Storm Serpents 2 Cobras 6 Void Spinners (5 requiring putting together and painting, at least as far as 5 colours) 4 Scorpions 'fraid so too the no air/space too. I can have access to 33 Falcons and 8 Fire Storms, plus 3 Fire Prisms though. I really need to finish my accursed Adorno essay ASAP so as to be able to get painting and playing... |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help my Britcon list? |
Well I'm no webway fanatic. So screw the storm serpents My grasp of points costs then reveals it would cost a minimum of 3600 points to field the rest. And remember you only need 3 colours (in fact you could have no colours thanks to the britcon rules, but it would look awful). So you could have... 000 Avatar 050 Wraithgate 400 Shining spears, Autarck, Exarch 150 Guardians 150 Guardians 150 Guardians 500 2 Cobras (BTS) 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Scorpion 250 Scorpion 250 Scorpion 250 Scorpion 100 Rangers A mere 16/17 activations of skimming, popping up, WE, mostly indirect, death. Plus teleporters aren't that worrying as you can skim above them Now scorpions have suffered from the change to pulse, so best off swapping 2 out for falcons plus firestorms. 000 Avatar 050 Wraithgate 400 Shining spears, Autarck, Exarch 150 Guardians 150 Guardians 150 Guardians 500 2 Cobras (BTS) 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Scorpion 250 Scorpion 250 3 Falcons, 2 Firestorms 250 3 Falcons, 2 Firestorms 100 Rangers Or if you are keen on using that Warlock Titan there is 000 Avatar 050 Wraithgate 400 Shining spears, Autarck, Exarch 150 Guardians 150 Guardians 500 2 Cobras (BTS) 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 Void Spinner 250 3 Falcons, 2 Firestorms 250 3 Falcons, 2 Firestorms 150 Rangers 850 Warlock Of course you may not want the cobra as well as the Warlock, so could do some other changes there. Another advantage is WE armies are very fast to play
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