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http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14356		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  konate [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Are there any scenarios that allow the Avatar to hang out for more than one turn?

Or, is he always limited to a single turn?

It just seems kinda wierd to me how he and any retinue accompanying him appears and disappears so quickly.
Author:  Irisado [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
In Grand Tournament games, he can only be used in the way in which he is described in the Eldar army list.

The problem you would have with making his presence permanent in my opinion is that you would have to assign a points value to him, as I don't think it would be right for him to remain in play when he doesn't cost any points.

As to it seeming weird to you that he doesn't remain in play, think about the scale of Epic game, and how much happens in one turn.  The amount of movement/shooting/casualties etc is probably equivalent to several turns of game play in WH40K, so the Avatar may actually be present for much longer than is apparent in narrative terms.

I think it's also quite a suitable way of using the Avatar, in that it just feels right to me for him to be summoned, inflict as much damage as possible, and then return to the Craftworld.  The Eldar would not expose their 'God' to unnecessary risks after all.
Author:  Malakai [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Quote: (Irisado @ 27 Dec. 2008, 07:16 )

I think it's also quite a suitable way of using the Avatar, in that it just feels right to me for him to be summoned, inflict as much damage as possible, and then return to the Craftworld.  The Eldar would not expose their 'God' to unnecessary risks after all.

The Avatar being summoned and leaving in one turn is to represent him being summoned to other vital battlegrounds. As he can't be destroyed there are no "risks" for him to be exposed to.
Author:  Warhead [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
I think it's also quite a suitable way of using the Avatar, in that it just feels right to me for him to be summoned, inflict as much damage as possible, and then return to the Craftworld.  The Eldar would not expose their 'God' to unnecessary risks after all.

Hmmm, that flies in the face of any background I have ever read and the old original SM rules too. He is the Avatar of War not Hide and Seek. It's like the Eldar have a Godzilla button. Things like this put me off EA altogether. However, I am derailing this topic and will now slunk off into the shadows.

The Avatar being summoned and leaving in one turn is to represent him being summoned to other vital battlegrounds. As he can't be destroyed there are no "risks" for him to be exposed to.
That description is better but just how many battles is he expected to attend in a day? Does he get the Holidays? Do you have to pre-book? What if there is a double booking, does he rip a whole in the time continuum and cease to exist?.. I'm being irritating again aren't I?  :sulk:
Author:  Malakai [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
The bit about him being "summoned to other battlefields" always struck me as something like "he's too powerful to include him for a whole game so we'll make an excuse to get rid of him."

Historically the Avatar has always had problems within the Eldar lists. Many people in Epic 2nd Edition (at least my opponents) felt he was over-powered. In 2nd Edition 40K he was very powerful. Gav Thorpe nerfed him to the point that he was never taken in 3rd Edition.

Now he is just being used again as Phil Kelly seems to have finally gotten him right.
Author:  Malakai [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Quote: (Warhead @ 27 Dec. 2008, 07:52 )

Do you have to pre-book? What if there is a double booking, does he rip a whole in the time continuum and cease to exist?..

HAHA! The Avatar is a bit of a workaholic. The wife and kids are a drag so he chooses to spend most of his time at the office.

I'm being irritating again aren't I?  :sulk:

Never Warhead!  :tongue:
Author:  Irisado [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Quote: (Warhead @ 27 Dec. 2008, 13:52 )


Malakai: Theoretically he can be destroyed, in that his physical form can be overcome in combat or shot to pieces by mass firepower, although his spirit will return to the Craftworld should this happen.

Warhead: I think you could well be right.  I may have got my background wires a bit crossed there, so time to hit the reset button.  I'm sorry about that.

Also, you could never be irritating, at least no to me, remember you did say I was a long lost relative of yours in another thread, so I wouldn't hold anything against you (especially since you corrected my mistake in such a friendly manner).
Author:  Warhead [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
No trouble Irisado of the lost Clan. I like the funnies. They make me smile. It's just a game and I get things wrong all the time and I hate getting it right as I just sound like a smart ass git. It's impossable for me to show up anyone but myself anyway.  :))

My take on this is it is odd that he shows up for a turn and then gets pokomoned back into his box afterwards. I thought the Avatar to be the Eldars resolve and battlelust and all that in physical form... like an Avatar. So if it leaves does that mean the Eldar just give up, have lost their resolve? However, after saying that. How else can you represent this unit while staying true to the original background as much as possible. It may be that this is the best compromise to be had. To bad I just don't like it though. That doesn't make it wrong for the game I suppose.
Author:  Chroma [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:22 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
I may be doing a variant Biel-Tan armylist that actually allows for a "permanent" Avatar presence for the army, based more around Aspect Warrior Warhosts and Troupes, but it's on a far back burner at the moment.
Author:  Moscovian [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
I like the idea of putting together a scenario or set of scenarios for Biel-tan with a more permanent Avater and Wraithgates that can be destroyed.  In fact, it would be great to put together a compendium of scenarios in one volume for various army lists.  Another book idea! :D
Author:  konate [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
I thought I read earlier somewhere here something about a reference to scenarios where the Avatar may stick around longer than normal.

As an aside - I do think that E:A is short on the scenario side.  If there is a compendium of scenarios (BFG has an incredible list of scenarios), I would be very interested!  List specific would be even awesomer!  :wow:
Author:  Malakai [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Quote: (Irisado @ 27 Dec. 2008, 17:40 )

Malakai: Theoretically he can be destroyed, in that his physical form can be overcome in combat or shot to pieces by mass firepower, although his spirit will return to the Craftworld should this happen.

His physical form can be destroyed, but he will return and can be summoned again and again and again. The only risk is a loss to the war effort at that moment.
Author:  Malakai [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Quote: (Moscovian @ 27 Dec. 2008, 21:41 )

I like the idea of putting together a scenario or set of scenarios for Biel-tan with a more permanent Avater and Wraithgates that can be destroyed.  In fact, it would be great to put together a compendium of scenarios in one volume for various army lists.  Another book idea! :D

Don't say it if you don't mean it Moscovian! Epic is sorely in need of a scenario book. It's interesting that we're talking about this as I believe there is a rumored 40K scenario book to come out in 2009.

And that's a great idea for a list Chroma.
Author:  illuvitar [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
how about an E:A "apocalypse " book with army lists balanced for bigger battles ? or am i the only one who gets into big oversized E:A games where the tournement lists start to break down ? :whistle:
Author:  Irondeath [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Avatar
Do they break down?

I can´t see much of a problem if list limitations are applied per 4000 or 5000 points.
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