Tactical Command
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Why no love for Warwalkers?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14347		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Malakai [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
I can't remember the last time I saw a list with Warwalkers included. Why is this? Are they lacking in some way or do people just feel there are other more worthwhile formations to spend your points on?

I ask because I've always liked the things and on paper they look to be quite good.
Author:  Warphead [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
They are good and I regularly use them. And the model ist very cool too.
Author:  Pulsar [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
I use warwalks all the time as well, there very useful :) , and for 200 points there quite shootie, Malakai maybe all the people you have seen play eldar just haven't worked it out yet?  :))
Author:  Fenvarien [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Malakai @ 25 Dec. 2008, 04:58 )

I can't remember the last time I saw a list with Warwalkers included. Why is this? Are they lacking in some way or do people just feel there are other more worthwhile formations to spend your points on?

I ask because I've always liked the things and on paper they look to be quite good.

War Walkers are fine. The problem is their formation size. Six of them are simply not that usefull for the niche they should fill in, i.e. increasing activations, harras the enemy and take/denie objectives, a bit to fragile to spent 200pts on - at least in my opinion. As a garrison small formations of Rangers (4-5) are preferable. If they were three per troupe for 100pts or even four for 150pts, I would take them much more often.

By the way, they are a nice addition to Ulthwé Black Guardians. Coming out of a gate autoretaining they are very suitable for crossfiring and may then force enemy foramtions to move out of their 10cm ZoC. Alternatively such a formation can form a nice back up reserve to counter enemy deep striking actions. Two Farseer units with the commander ability plus three scouts with 20cm move distance can be a very effective combination, if used the rigth way.  :vD
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
IMO they tend to fall between several stools.
  • Too expensive for scouts (I use 5x Rangers for 125)
  • As LV they are more vulnerable than Rangers
  • They are slower than Jetbikes (which are also better armoured and have better assault)
The one role they do fill is as an AT trip-wire as they do pack a punch if allowed to sustain on an unsuspecting enemy armoured formation.

However, marching out of a gate could be an intruiging option. Equally, I have never tried using massed formations and I have a suspicion that several formations could provide an area denial force - albeit a rather brittle one.
Author:  Irisado [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
I get the feeling that you need multiple formations of War Walkers for them to have an impact.

I know that Eldar are fragile, but I found the War Walkers to be exceptionally so, and I was also not that impressed by their firepower, but I would need to use them more often to come to a definitive conclusion about this.

I think they are more vulnerable than Rangers too, and this is perhaps the main reason why players shy away from them.

Being Light Vehicles means that they can be targeted by a lot of different enemy formations too, so they can be something of an easy target for a lot of enemy commanders.
Author:  Malakai [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
So their main drawbacks seems to be that they are LV and that the formation size is too large/expensive.

I'd really be interested to hear Chroma's observations on them.
Author:  old_gamer [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
War walkers are very effective advancing out of the gate at the end of one turn, firing on an RA target and sustaining first thing next turn. Especially if this can be combined with crossfire. I had a company of 6 knights + a baron ruined in this manner recently.
Author:  Malakai [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Malakai @ 26 Dec. 2008, 19:16 )

So their main drawbacks seems to be that they are LV and that the formation size is too large/expensive.

I'd really be interested to hear Chroma's observations on them.

*Ahem*

Chroma?
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Malakai @ 29 Dec. 2008, 20:50 )

Chroma?

Hey, I'm on Christmas vacation... and it's Tyranid month!

Anyway, I've found Warwalkers great as a garrisoned "tripwire" detachment when deployed on overwatch; they can really mess up a Tactical Detachment that happens to be driving by.

I've never fielded them in great numbers, but I've recently gotten some more, so I'll take them out for a spin. The Warwalker model is what got me into 40k oh-so-many-years ago.
Author:  Malakai [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Chroma @ 29 Dec. 2008, 18:51 )

Hey, I'm on Christmas vacation... and it's Tyranid month!

Sorry Chroma didn't mean to bother you on holiday, but you know what they say, "no rest for the wicked!"  :devil:

Have you ever considered using them as a 3 unit strong formation?
Author:  Irisado [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Chroma @ 30 Dec. 2008, 00:51 )

Hey, I'm on Christmas vacation... and it's Tyranid month!

I think we can let you off over Tyranid month, but there really is no such thing as Christmas Holidays  :;):

I feel that the main problem with War Walkers is that they are very hard to get the best out of.  I get the impression that they need to be garrisoned, or kept well clear of high concentrations of enemy firepower in order to be effective.

I will have to try fielding them again, as I don't think that I used them very well before, but I still have this gut feeling that there are other Eldar units which I would rather take than War Walkers if points are tight.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
I personally love War Walkers.  They are a cheap formation that nobody wants to shoot at but they have to because they annoy your opponent.  I've had my opponents do their best to IGNORE them but eventually had to use 1-2 activations to take them out.

A classic example of a Warwalker strategy is to bum rush titans.  I did this to a couple people, the most notable was ePilgrim's Warlord titan in a 5000 point game we played.  He was about to activate his titan to shoot at MY titan, so I moved the War Walkers into a crescent moon shape around him, forcing him to move back (due to my ZoC).  It was either that or completely obliterate my War Walkers which would have been a waste of his activation.  He ended up out of range of my Phantom except for his most extreme weapons and accomplished nothing that activation anyway.  My phantom went on to destroy him outright, but I credit those little War Walkers with the kill.

I think the only reason you see Rangers taken over Walkers is because you can choose a formation cost of Rangers within 25 points.  Walkers are a fixed price.  Rangers are the afterthought scout formation when you can't plug anything else into the list.  War Walkers IMO are the scouts of choice.

To this day this represents my favorite Epic pic of my games. :D
Author:  Irisado [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
Quote: (Moscovian @ 30 Dec. 2008, 11:22 )

A classic example of a Warwalker strategy is to bum rush titans.  I did this to a couple people, the most notable was ePilgrim's Warlord titan in a 5000 point game we played.  He was about to activate his titan to shoot at MY titan, so I moved the War Walkers into a crescent moon shape around him, forcing him to move back (due to my ZoC).  It was either that or completely obliterate my War Walkers which would have been a waste of his activation.  He ended up out of range of my Phantom except for his most extreme weapons and accomplished nothing that activation anyway.  My phantom went on to destroy him outright, but I credit those little War Walkers with the kill.

This is the sort of lateral thinking I'm referring to.

I believe that you have to be quite creative with War Walkers to get them to work for you.  It's no good just stuffing them into your battle line and hoping that they will provide fire support (I tried that in my first game, and it was a disaster).
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Why no love for Warwalkers?
They are skirmishers...  They were never meant for gun line work. Although it is nice to know that you have an AT5+ lance shot at 30cm range with them when you need it.  Lances are the bane of anything reinforced (Leman Russes, WE's, titans, Land Raiders) and your opponent will not forget the first 'sting' of these little guys.
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