Tactical Command
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Disrupt weapons question?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14317		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  stompzilla [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Quick question regarding disrupt weapons (Particulary Barrages weapons) and units that ignore BMs e.g. Tau drones, Grots.

If i hit a unit that contains these BM ignoring units, do the disrupt BMs still get applied?

For e.g. I shoot a void spinner into a large mob of Orks and score 6 hits.  The first 4 are put on the grots who are at the front of the fm and the next 2 are applied to the next closest 2 stands.

Does this fm suffer 7 BMs (6 disrupt hits and 1 for being fired on) or 3 BMs (2 normal hits, 4 on grots discounted and 1 for coming under fire)?
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Disrupt gives an extra BM when hitting a unit if the unit's death would normally cause a BM.

In the case of grots, expendable units like tau drones or tyranid broods and titan void shields / power fields, no BM would normally be applied for the kill, so no extra BM is applied.

Note that shots from barrage weapons should be rolled seperately for each base (or unit type) rather than just applying from the front like normal fire, so the orcs can't choose to keep the grots at the front to oak up barrages.
Author:  stompzilla [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Could you expand on this a little please?  How are hits from barrages allocated?  I was always under the impression it was front to back to avoid things like character sniping.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Quote: (stompzilla @ 22 Dec. 2008, 03:30 )

Could you expand on this a little please?  How are hits from barrages allocated?  I was always under the impression it was front to back to avoid things like character sniping.

It *is* front to back... but "front to back" versus the units *specifically* under the templates.

Also note that you've got to place the first barrage template to hit the most enemy units possible, so that can, on occasion, really limit placement.
Author:  stompzilla [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Ahhhh... ok.

Cheers for that Chroma.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Two thoughts here -
1) Disrupt:- I find it easier to consider that you get a BM for each hit (irrespective of whether it is saved or not). Consequently, I thought this actually occurred before the "expendable" rule kicks in - though I may well be wrong here :smile:

2) Templates are even more restrictive than described above. see the last paragraph from 1.9.8
Using Barrage Templates: Deciding which enemy units have been caught underneath a circular Barrage template is another one of the things that can cause endless arguments during a game. The method we use (and the default you should use unless you have a different convention that you prefer) is that a unit is affected if any part of the model falls under the template, or at least one model on a stand. In addition, templates must be placed in such a way as to get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines of fire and range. This stops players ‘sniping’ at important units with artillery.
(My emphasis) So, you have to place all templates primarily over the target formation (not just the first one). You only worry about collateral damage if in doing this you also happen to cover another formation.

Playing the "Front-to-back" rule within the template also avoids these kind of discussions on 'Disrupt'. The second formation gets BMs for being shot at, but only suffers 'Disrupt' BMs if any of the hits spill over onto that formation.
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
The disrupt wording states

To represent this weapons noted as having the disrupt ability inflict a
Blast marker on an enemy formation for each hit they
inflict instead of for each kill they inflict.

No mention is made as to whether the kill would have caused a BM or not. So grots hit by disrupt weapons take BM's.
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
However this has been FAQ'd and grots negate the BM from disrupt.
Author:  Man of kent [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Quote: (Chroma @ 22 Dec. 2008, 03:41 )

It *is* front to back... but "front to back" versus the units *specifically* under the templates.

Also note that you've got to place the first barrage template to hit the most enemy units possible, so that can, on occasion, really limit placement.

REally?!?

That's annoying; i'd been using my grots as a barrage screen for ages...looks like them poor litle blighters will have to bunch up even tighter from here on in...:-(
Author:  Irisado [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
I suspected the expendable rule to negate Blast Markers from Disrupt Weapons, so that doesn't come as any great surprise, since it's logical to me that Orks wouldn't care too much if Grots were 'disrupted'.  Still, my suspicions are often wrong, so it's good to have some clarification.
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?
Zombo's got it right.  If the target doesn't generate BMs on its death, then Disrupt does not generate "bonus" BMs.  The FAQ specifically talks about Grots and Void Shields because that's the only instances that were in play when it was written.


Q: Do hits stopped by Shields still
cause an additional BM if the weapon
had the Disrupt ability? Similarly do
hits on Grot units by Disrupt weapons
cause an additional BM?
A: Shields and Grots negate the BM caused
by an attack, but are lost themselves in
the process. This means that they do
negate the BM inflicted by Disrupt
weapons.
The same would hold true for any unit,
such as Chaos daemons, that do not
generate a Blast Marker when they are
destroyed.
In effect a Blast Marker is placed either
when the hit is scored or the damage
inflicted, but then the BM is removed when
the shield goes down or the Grot is killed.
Note that in both cases there is no save
allowed against the hit, so any hit will
automatically result in the shield or Grot
being lost.
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Disrupt weapons question?

The same would hold true for any unit,
such as Chaos daemons, that do not
generate a Blast Marker when they are
destroyed.

Hence expendable also ignores disrupt BMs.
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