Another boring night at work, another round of brainstorming on the list.

I think i've narrowed it down to 3 possibles.  I'd very much appreciate some feedback.  Here they are:

Option A and my current list:

Avatar - FREE!

Aspect warhost: 2 x Striking scorpions, 4 x DAs + 2 x Fire dragons (inc exarch + autarch) - 4 Wave serpents - 600

Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms - 150

Windrider host: Jetbikes - 200

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Void Spinner - 250

Void Spinner - 250

4 x Rangers - 100

Vampire - 200

Phantom Titan (Powerfist) - 750

3000pts

Pretty straight forward.  Big solid BTS unit.  Lots of activations, lots of firepower but with very few surprises.

Option B:

Web way gate: 50

Avatar - Free

Aspect warhost: 2 x Striking scorpions, 4 x DAs + 2 x Fire dragons (inc exarch + autarch) - 4 Wave serpents - 600

Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms - 150

Aspect warhost: 4 x Scorpions, 2 x DAs, 2 x FDs inc 2 Exarchs.

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Void Spinner - 250

Storm serpent - 250

Vampire - 200

Revenents - 650

3000

I think i prefer the Phantom as a BTS unit as it's much harder to kill, can't be surpressed and is better in an assault.  The revenents do seem to do more damage from shooting though.  Aspects will ride in the vampire for air assaults and are pretty viscous.  The storm serpent/gate combo allows the guardians some degree of flexibility and still allows me to ram the Avatar down people's pants.  I do lose some artillery power though and this list relies a bit more on positioning and cunning than the one above which has a bit more brute force.  The webway gate also forces the opponent to adjust their placement of objectives and their set up.  Usually meaning that the objectives are placed deeper in my half of the table forcing them to have to move further to try and capture them, which does in fact work in my favour as they are easier to defend and forces the enemy to get inside my optimum attack range, which is about 45 cm.

Option C:

Web way gate: 50

Avatar - Free

Aspect warhost: 2 x Striking scorpions, 4 x DAs + 2 x Fire dragons (inc exarch + autarch) - 4 Wave serpents - 600

Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms + Support weapons platforms - 200

Windrider host: Jetbikes - 200

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Void Spinner - 250

Storm serpent - 250

Night wings - 300

Revenents - 650

3000

The nightwings really appeal to me because of marines to be quite frank.  I really don't fancy having assault marines and devs ripping my delicate fms to shreds.  In addition the have decent firepower for strafing small fms and are evil death to light vehicle squadrons (Broadsides for e.g.).

All the above factors come into play for the webway gates again and in addition the guardians now have an increased no of stands and more firepower.

It has less 1st turn activations than list A but more than list B.

Any thoughts?

I like C , but I like the warlock too in tourney

WDYT () using  FERC list:
Aspect warhost: 2 x Striking scorpions, 4 x DAs + 2 x Fire dragons (inc exarch + autarch) - 4 Wave serpents - 600

Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms + 3 Support weapons platforms - 150


Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms + 3 Support weapons platforms - 150 ( redundancy)

(3xspider+1hawk) : 175 ( teleport unit to harass artillery) see http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....iew=new

Windrider host: Jetbikes - 200

BOV : 3 Falcon and 2 firestorm - 250

1 nightspinner +x2 firestorm : 175 AA

scorpio - 250

Storm serpent - 250



warlock 850 AA

2910, 10Activations

How do you teleport with only a single Swooping Hawk, or does the F-ERC list give Warp Spiders teleport as well?

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no silly me, I knew it would come when I pressed "Add". I mean "go in the back of the table". WS are infiltrators and first strike only in FERC, not teleport, nor scouts. the SH is just there for annoyance with ZoC , like said in the thread.

List A is the most solid out of the three.

I have found that playing with a single Stormserpent is risky as they tend to get targetted first. With the changes to the Pulse rule I have found that my Revenants have become more effective, but a Phantom (or Warlock) with Powerfist are very nice.

One thing to watch is loaded wave serpents. Experienced players will pick on these as they are so strong.

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with a single Stormserpent is risky

I also think A is the best. As you are not looking to used wraith constructs with you guardians the storm serpent isn't really going to deliver a killing blow.

I'm a big fan of nightwings, but the phantom blocks them from your list at 3,000 points.

I like them all, actually.  List A IMO could use a tweak.  I prefer Warlocks over Phantoms in 3000 point games.  Even though they are more expensive, the Farsight ability guarantees they will activate (as long as you have no BMs) when you retain for a second or third activation, they are brutal killers, and the Commander ability is handy.  You could drop a Void Spinner and add a Guardian formation and still maintain the same number of activations.  

For me, Phantoms are best suited for larger games (3500points or more) where they can hang back, nail your opponent with 2 x phantom lances, and force your opponent to move forward haphazardly to try to take our this BTS goal.  There is no ignoring a Phantom Titan (or any Eldar titan) in Epic and this plays to your advantage of range and mobility.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I think the fact that I'm not looking to deliver a killing blow with the guardians actually works to the list's advantage, as it downplays the inherant weakness of a single SS.  The Storm serpent is useful but not key to the army.  What i've been using it for in recent games is to set up crossfires.  In both of my last 3 games (I used the list below which is a hybrid of A & C)the storm serpent has come in handy for this task.

Web way gate: 50

Avatar - Free

Aspect warhost: 2 x Striking scorpions, 4 x DAs + 2 x Fire dragons (inc exarch + autarch) - 4 Wave serpents - 600

Guardian warhost 3 x weapons platforms + Support weapons platforms - 200

Windrider host: Jetbikes - 200

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Falcon troupe inc 2 firestorm - 250

Void Spinner - 250

Storm serpent - 250

Vampire - 200

Phantom titan (Powerfist) - 750

3000

In the first game i had against chaos the SS and a Falcon Troupe very nearly ended a chaos reaver titan on their own, after the empty SS doubled behind it and set up a crossfire.  Were it not for some of the jammiest armour saves i've ever seen it would have been a smoking wreck and the BTS goal.  An empty SS is fairly disposable and fast moving and so ideal for purpose.

In the second game against Nids i managed to march a SS behind his SC fm and deploy guardians who fired into the unit, setting up a crossfire for a triple activated Phantom with fist who sustained into the dominatrix at 30 cm causing mass pain.  Pretty confident i would be getting first activation i summoned the avatar at the start of the 3rd turn and assaulted, using the guardians and SS as supporting fire and decimating the Nids most dangerous fm and scoring the BTS goal.

During the 3rd game i marched the SS, retained and called forth the jetbikes who doubled behind a Leman Russ tank company, setting up a nasty crossfire for a unit of Falcons who sustained and broke the company - who were then finished off by strafing runs from the vampire, again scoring the BTS.

I think overall i'm going to stick with this list for the time being.  Although there are no killing blows, it also means that there's a lot of flexibility and no glaring, serious weaknesses.  I do always worry about artillery being able to strike at my wave serpents however the armie with the biggest artillery threat tend to be guard and i'm usually fairly confident of the first activation and with the vampire and the VS i have the tools at my disposal to negate this threat before they get the chance to fire.

Cheers for all the comments and advice guys.  Greatly appreciated.