Tactical Command
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[Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11747		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
Okay, the polls are closed, and, our new president is...

No, wait, these are the stats for Howling Banshees I want to see playtested:

Howling Banshee
Type ?Speed ?Armour ?CC ?FF
INF ? 15cm ? 5+ ? ? ?2+ ?5+
Weapon ? ? ? ? ? Range ? ? ? ? ?Firepower ? ? ? Notes
Shuriken Pistols (15cm) ? ? ? ? Small Arms
Banshee Mask ? ? (Base Contact) Assault Weapons First Strike
Author:  Ginger [ Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
Ok Chroma - thanks for taking the lead here.

While you may be less convinced to take them, an interesting poll might be to see how many people would be prepared to take Banshees with these stats now, and to check again after some play testing to see how opinion is changed.

Finally, as Soren and Dobsy both say, Aspects are already very powerfull and it won't take much to make them 'broken'; which is why I was trying to pursuade people to try something a little less powerfull than this to start with, and with more of an 'anti-infantry' slant.

But hey, lets give these stats a whirl and see what happens :)
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
Tried them out in a friendly after the excellent Full Scale Assault competition run by Matt Otter in the UK

Here are some musings http://forum.specialist-games.com/topic.a....hpage=5
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
These are the comments I made in the SG thread:

Originally posted by Biggles

The test results
I won the strategy roll for turn #2, so we agreed to suspend play to try various combinations of potential situations.
  • Banshees Vs Termies
  • Banshees Vs Warhound
  • Banshees Vs Tacticals
    All of those tests seem to favour the Eldar by a relatively wide margin of points, 550 for the Aspect Warhost, with 4 Wave Serpents and 2 Exarchs.

    Since the Banshees only really made it against 250 (275?) points of Warhound and couldn't really do it against 300 points of Marines, I'd say they're still underpowered. ?Against an equal point value of Marines, in the Tactical scenario, they would probably be demolished.

    I look forward to more playtests and thanks for your efforts!
    • Author:  Ginger [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:58 pm ]
    Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
    Actually, apart from the Warhound, they were much closer points scores than you imply:-

    The Terminators had 2x Dreadnoughts and a chaplain, so cost 475, while the Tacticals had a character, hunter and Razorback, so cost 450.

    Also, as requested, this was a "gameplay" situation, so we tried out several plausible situations at that point in the game given the geography and the locations of the various formations at that point.

    Also I am not sure we should use the term "underpowered" here - with CC2+ you cannot really add more power except by making it an auto-kill :p. I would prefer that we concentrate on the intended "Focus" of the formation.
    • In the gameplay examples, we ended up opposing the Banshees with a formation of Terminators (or Leman Russ if you prefer) that really ought to 'terminate' the Banshees with extreme prejudice every time:D.
    • Conversely, the Banshees ought to be able to smash the Marines every time (if we are to achieve the 'anti-infantry' goal that people generally seem to favour). Clearly they did not do this in first strike which was the main observation here.
    • Regarding the Warhound, I am much less clear on what the expected result should be. Granted the points inequality, but IMHO Banshees should not be able to kill it quite so easily (by getting so many CC hits that bypass the shields). The remaining units in FF scored 2 hits from memory which would have been taken on the newly restored shields.
    • Finally regarding the Wave Serpents, we noted how their presence affected the performance of the Banshees, but IMHO this did not really boost their power in any discernable fashion over the other Aspects.
    So basically they "suck" against large numbers of strong, RA units (as they should).

    At CC2+, they are quite good against armour and weak RA (which seems possibly wrong),

    Most importantly, they did not do well against larger formations because of their inability to get to B-B with everything to get the most FS attacks, consequently the returning firepower gets through their relatively weak armour.

    However this is just one test and early days yet

    Cheers

    Biggles
    Author:  Irondeath [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:46 pm ]
    Post subject:  [Experimental] New Howling Banshee Stats
    They are quite good against armour in CC.

    That?s not a quality inherent to the HBs, but a result of many AVs having CC6+. Armour that is succesfully charged dies, as it should.

    I wouldn?t worry too much about that. 4+RA tanks like Leman Russ or Land Raiders, expecially LRus in their large Tank Coys will still suffer few casualties, retaliate nicely in FF with the unengaged part of the 10-strong formation and have  Inspiring to boot.
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