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Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:25 pm 
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credit goes to Stompzilla over on the Flame On forum for coming up with this conundrum:

From the rulebook:
Quote:
If a unit finds itself in an enemy zone of control for any
reason, then it must either charge the enemy or leave the
zone of control when it next takes an action (note that
this will require an action that allows it to charge or
move).


From swordwind:
Quote:
Eldar formations that take advance or double
actions may choose to shoot either before or after
each move. However, they may still only shoot once
during the action. For example, an Eldar formation
taking an advance action could shoot and then
move or move and then shoot, while a formation
taking a double action could shoot and move twice,
move twice and then shoot, or move then shoot and
then move again.



From Stomp's brain:
Quote:
1) The Eldar player must take an action that takes them out of the scout's ZOC or charge.
2) The Eldar player chooses to double which fulfils the above criteria.
3) The Eldar player chooses to shoot before moving which is allowed following the hit and run rules and is no-where forbidden by the rules for ZOC.
4) The Eldar player then moves out of the scout's ZOC.



I think Stomp may be right?

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:28 pm 
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I'd reason that they'd have to move before firing based on the fact that they're not allowed to move into ZoC to fire.

Why was it an issue though? Did they not have LoS after one move?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Quote:
Why was it an issue though? Did they not have LoS after one move?

They wanted to run away as far as possible and so wanted to shoot-move-move.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Yep. Looks legal to me.

Any reason it shouldn't be?
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Quote:
Any reason it shouldn't be?

Assumption based on how other armies operate, I guess?


It is notable that Overwatch also allows you to shoot when inside a ZoC.

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Spectrar Ghost
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:49 pm 
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I don't see an issue with it. Call it a fighting retreat.

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Curis
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
credit goes to Stompzilla over on the Flame On forum for coming up with this conundrum:


Yay! I'm now Stomp! I'm off to drink twenty beers and fly helicopters.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Ah yes, it was you who posted first, but stomp who posted the 1-4 sequence breakdown, sorry!

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Sigh, as ever the stupid elves get to break all the rules :(

Personally I'd have argued it the other way, as the Eldar have chosen to move, they should do so. If they don't want to move then engage just like every one else has too.
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Ulrik
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
Sigh, as ever the stupid elves get to break all the rules :(

Personally I'd have argued it the other way, as the Eldar have chosen to move, they should do so. If they don't want to move then engage just like every one else has too.


Everybody else gets to double even if they're ZOCed, why shouldn't Eldar do so? They still can't sustain fire.
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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
Personally I'd have argued it the other way, as the Eldar have chosen to move, they should do so. If they don't want to move then engage just like every one else has too.

But the Eldar haven't chosen to move, they've taken an advance or a double order. As long as they end their activation outside of enemy ZoC, I'd say they were free to fire then move. It's not like there is a prohibition on shooting within enemy ZoC.

This sounds like one of those 'I did it once and got burned, I won't do it a second time' situations. Mr 'Move my scouts to harass the Xenos scum' won't be making that move again.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Heh, another reason to hate the Eldar... And that's why I love them. :)

I'd say that, based on the precedent set by Overwatch firing within a ZoC, this would be allowed as well. It is weird that it hadn't been brought up before though.

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stompzilla
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Heh, another reason to hate the Eldar... And that's why I love them. :)


Me too! ;D
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Mephiston
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:42 am 
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Nope, never seen it happen. I just don't like scout being weekend. Formations and units with it are normally weak and if more and more things ignore their key strength they get worse.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: Re: Eldar hit-and-run vs ZoC...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:41 pm 
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I'd agree except for the fact that this is the first time any of us have heard about this happening. The Eldar can't initiate this activity. Another player has to overtly place a (presumably) shooty Eldar formation within their scouts' ZoC, then have the Eldar player react to it.

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