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[Units] Warp Spiders discussion

 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:43 am 
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carlisimo109 wrote:
Warp Spiders can’t be transported??
As far as I can see, Warp Spiders can at least be transported in a Vampire Raider (according to the NetEA army lists). A nasty combination!

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:58 am 
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To some extent you are correct. They do have 10x FS 4+ attacks (assuming two Exarchs) and the ability to disembark up to 15cm from the Vampire (jump-packs). However, the Vampire is the weakest transport in the game and horribly vulnerable to AA fire. A pair of TBolts on CAP have an excellent chance of spoiling your day, and Nightwings will do so for sure. However, if you can avoid the AA, then WS in the Vamp are a good choice.

Note they are possibly a better choice assaulting out of a Storm Serpent, as infiltrator means they can move 30cm, engaging targets up to ~45cm away. On top of the SS 50cm double, that means they can attack targets over 90cm away, inside the enemy deployment zone


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:18 am 
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Ginger wrote:
Note they are possibly a better choice assaulting out of a Storm Serpent, as infiltrator means they can move 30cm, engaging targets up to ~45cm away. On top of the SS 50cm double, that means they can attack targets over 90cm away, inside the enemy deployment zone

Also, if you are planning on engaging more than 15cm from the Storm Serpent, it can March. Extending the engagement range out to 120cm. That should be enough to hit anywhere on the table, assuming your centrally located in your DZ. That's if you don't need the SS to place a BM, of course. But with ~5 First Strike hits, on a clipping assault, with 2 Inspiring Characters, it should be academic in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:23 am 
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Warp Spiders have two problems that balance each other out: They're better than the other aspects, but they only work in dedicated formations.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:21 am 
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What about allowing them to warp out of combat? You know, counter-charge backward? If they get charged, they blink back and fire...

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Tau crisis suits used to have that. 10cm countercharge BACKWARDS. could move out of B2B.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Honestly, I still don't get what all the hatred for the spiders is all about.

They're one of the most underpowered units in the eldar army; terrible against anything with even a bit of an armor save, or something in cover:

On space marines, that's 5 first strike hits, 2 ½ casualties. When the marines hit back, they are going to get shot so full of holes they will lose that assault. Terminators? Waste of your time. IG in a ruin? They'll hit on 5s, so that's a little over 3 hits, one or two dead - remember, infantry gets cover saves in assaults.
What are they good against? Guardsmen standing in the open? Well what's that guardsman doing in the open within 30cm of a warp spider?

It's pathetic - why are they still getting bashed? They're a 350 points unit with the two exarches. Without serious help, they will lose every single assault they're in, and they'll be a liabilty in a fight.


I simply cannot see how anyone would think of spiders as better than anything the eldar army has to offer, bar banshees (don't get me started on those) - they are a stinking pile of waste of points; especially when, as now, they have to footslog across the battlefield at 15cm a turn.


Let them at least jump in the serpents with the rest of the dudes; they they might use their packs to teleport in past some of the enemy to engage key units in close combat, while their friends do the actual killing ..

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:45 pm 
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No modifiers on FF rolls, so a spider host will kill 3 2/3 guardsmen in cover. Should hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Nope; ruins is a 4+ save for inf; that means it's 2½ dead ig. Let's assume that's a vanilla inf. squad: The remaining 10 gets to shoot, 3 hits, 1½kills. Outnumbering makes it a draw.

Compare to, say, Dire Avengers. 18 attacks means 9 hits and 4½ casualties; while the 12 guardsmen will hit 4 times, killing 2½ Avengers. Definitely better odds, though not exacty fantastic, considering that that's a 350 points unit assaulting a craptastic 250 points unit.

Add 4 wave serpernts in front where they should be, that's 4 more 4+ attacks, killing one guards unit, plus their reinforced armor will absorb an extra hit.

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:20 pm 
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Parintachin wrote:
Honestly, I still don't get what all the hatred for the spiders is all about.

They're one of the most underpowered units in the eldar army; terrible against anything with even a bit of an armor save, or something in cover:

On space marines, that's 5 first strike hits, 2 ½ casualties. When the marines hit back, they are going to get shot so full of holes they will lose that assault. Terminators? Waste of your time.
Not sure about that, Spiders have 4+ armour and marines have their firepower concentrated in small numbers.

In fact an average of 2.5 dead devastators leaves 1.5 remaining, averaging 0.5 kills in return. Add +2 for inspiring, +1 or +2 for outnumbering and this is a pretty convincing "marines should lose" scenario. And you're rolling 10 first strike dice, so it could easily be a straight win for no loss.

Against tacticals it's similar: 2.5 kills compared to 0.875 kills, with the same +5 result.

Even against terminators it's far from a waste of time. On average each side will get 1 kill in FF though the Warp Spiders will still be up +2 for numbers and +2 for inspiring. Add blast markers from teleport and they look like a juicy target.

They might not be good against everything, but they're actually pretty good against a lot of stuff, especially out of the webway.

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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:35 pm 
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And don't forget they have 'infiltrate' to mimic their Warp packs - so their assault range is 45cm.
Out of a Storm Serpent or Vampire, they can inflict a very nasty surprise and then move away.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:55 pm 
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why on earth would you engage an IG Co. so that all the guardsmen can fight? That's crazy! Same as throwing them into an assault without prepping the target formation.

The 2+ inspiring and reduction in return fire in a clipping assault means that they should win most of their assaults. I've broken Russ co.s with them and on the flipside, have had 4 strong Warpspider fms had their butts handed to them by a couple of sentinels (which was embarrassing). Used properly though, out of a gate or in a vampire, they're devastating. More so than Dire Avengers, I'm not sure, but still very very good.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:12 am 
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Parintachin wrote:
Honestly, I still don't get what all the hatred for the spiders is all about.

They're one of the most underpowered units in the eldar army; terrible against anything with even a bit of an armor save, or something in cover:

On space marines, that's 5 first strike hits, 2 ½ casualties. When the marines hit back, they are going to get shot so full of holes they will lose that assault. Terminators? Waste of your time. IG in a ruin? They'll hit on 5s, so that's a little over 3 hits, one or two dead - remember, infantry gets cover saves in assaults.
What are they good against? Guardsmen standing in the open? Well what's that guardsman doing in the open within 30cm of a warp spider?

It's pathetic - why are they still getting bashed? They're a 350 points unit with the two exarches. Without serious help, they will lose every single assault they're in, and they'll be a liabilty in a fight.


I simply cannot see how anyone would think of spiders as better than anything the eldar army has to offer, bar banshees (don't get me started on those) - they are a stinking pile of waste of points; especially when, as now, they have to footslog across the battlefield at 15cm a turn.


Let them at least jump in the serpents with the rest of the dudes; they they might use their packs to teleport in past some of the enemy to engage key units in close combat, while their friends do the actual killing ..


CS Edit - Please keep this civil and if you have an opinion state it with reasoning. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: [Units] Warp Spiders discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:54 am 
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That's an incredibly patronising and condescending response, definitely worth reviving a thread for.
I don't think warp spiders are very good either certainly below avengers, dragons, scorpions and reapers. Perhaps you need to play better against them?

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