Reviewing Spirit Stones |
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MC23
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones  Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:56 am |
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| Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 14 Mar. 2006 (01:04)) | | Incidentally as a quick simple fix, inelagent as it might be, whats wrong with the straight 10% point increase? |
Spirit Stones was a quick fix too. A quick fix on a quick fix just makes the issue worse.
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MC23
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:58 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 13 Mar. 2006 (18:12)) | | formations (10 including Vampire and Avatar) in the next games - I don't see how Biel Tan can possibly have 'much larger' formation counts while still retaining their character, and especially not if they want to use any titans at all. Aspects are 300 each after all, even without upgrades! What craftworld are you using??? What does your army list look like that you are actually getting use out of this rule?? Even the Ulthwe player with about 10-11 activations on table didn't use it. |
I don't play titans unless I play 4,000 points. I don't like the activation sink. I use the higher number of Eldar activations as part of my arsenal.
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MC23
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:06 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 14 Mar. 2006 (11:00)) | NOTE: We can extrapolate from what TRC and Dysartes have said the army champions responsibilities are.
It means we have an army development fundamental principle conflict amongst development champions.
Sure - but all GT lists have that problem. That's not something unique to Eldar.
Nor is it justification for the Spirit Stone's rule in GT games. |
Jervis agreed with us so obviously your whole contrived logical solution is flawed. Deal with it. It is an acceptible issue and that is why we got to where we are today.
What can I say about TRC and Dysartes then? You guys must be missing out on part of the design process. Of course Jervis doesn't care how we get to the end point as long as everything is right in the end. If those two don't have to worry about such things and their stuff turns out right as a side effect, more power to them. But it doesn't mean it's not important. And it definitely doesn't change the fact that it is part of the Eldar design.
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MC23
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:07 am |
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To everyone who has been humoring me with my playtest requests, Thanks! That has been helpful bringing me further insight to this issue.
To eveyone else, well you shouldn't even be here then. Seriously, catching up on this thread has giving me a migraine. At best these off topic posts have been a distraction and a diversion (ironic since they seem to be from the most impatient posters) and at worst make me wonder why I'm bothering.
I have created a scenario where everyone can go and prove me right, wrong, or discover something else. But a lot of our more prolific posters here haven't and this hasn't helped me one bit. What can I say, I'm at a loss.
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Markconz
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:05 am |
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| Quote (MC23 @ 16 Mar. 2006 (00:07)) | To everyone who has been humoring me with my playtest requests, Thanks! That has been helpful bringing me further insight to this issue.
To eveyone else, well you shouldn't even be here then. Seriously, catching up on this thread has giving me a migraine. At best these off topic posts have been a distraction and a diversion (ironic since they seem to be from the most impatient posters) and at worst make me wonder why I'm bothering.
I have created a scenario where everyone can go and prove me right, wrong, or discover something else. But a lot of our more prolific posters here haven't and this hasn't helped me one bit. What can I say, I'm at a loss.
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Ok points taken MC23. So do you really want more playtest results on this rule? Or can I and others test the formation specific versions that have been much talked about?
I've reported 4 games with the 'per 1000 points' rule, and I honestly can't see what will change in future games to change my results with it, ?though I'm prepared to keep trying it out if you want?
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Tepoc
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:33 pm |
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Right, this is a big project to read so I'll read it later today and comment then.
Cheers!
Sotec (Eldar Champion)
_________________ ___ Beware the fury of the Bahazikhaine! http://www.pbase.com/tepoc/epic_army_pics
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Tactica
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:58 am |
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@MC23,
I'm a bit taken aback by your posts on page 8. They seem to be more counter productive than anything else.
You've definitely taken the steam out of my sails for all things Eldar... wow.
I thought we were generally trying to fix things. I thought commentary that transpired in the previous pages was definitely on topic. Especially when Markconz and I generated the same results (his from test, mine from map excersize) - and it was done in the requested rules mod... and their were others that also generated the same findings.
It seems you would expect there to be ample dialogue post testing. Ironically, darn near everyone seems to agree on the course and the solution.
So... at this point - I don't know what we are supposed to do. I guess we'll wait for Tepoc/Sotec to advise...
Still in shock...  ?
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Markconz
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:50 am |
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| Quote (Tepoc @ 16 Mar. 2006 (13:33)) | Right, this is a big project to read so I'll read it later today and comment then.
Cheers!
Sotec (Eldar Champion) |
Um - any news?? MC23? Sotec? Anybody?
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Chroma
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:16 pm |
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Any word from the Infinity Circuit?
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Tactica
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:06 pm |
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Negative.
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Rob
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Markconz
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:32 am |
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I've got another two eldar games coming up this Sunday.
Any feedback/confirmation etc from either of the two eldar AC's about what they want me to test would be appreciated.
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MC23
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:48 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 16 Mar. 2006 (18:58)) | | You've definitely taken the steam out of my sails for all things Eldar... wow. |
A few posters here have done the same for me, I'm sad to say.
At this time I've found this forum not much use for me and I have been taking a break from here.
The sooner everyone here understands that there isn't a simple problem and so there will be no quick fixes. The desire of that quick fix has become too counterproductive for any progress at this time.
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Jaldon
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:28 am |
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What I really don't want to see is another 'Quick Fix' to the Spirit Stone issue, nor do I want to see a 'Paper Replacement' that has the same effect (The same effect as Spirit Stones just worded or working a bit differently). Unlike when the Eldar deadline was fast approaching, this time we do have the TIME to get it right.
Now a word about ACs, designing, and the GT Scenario.......
I can only speak for myself in this regard, but as Nid AC my primary concern is with the GT aspects of the design of the Nid list, and the non-GT use of the Nid list as a secondary issue. This doesn't meen that the non-GT use of the list is ignored, but if I have to make a ruling that could lean either way the GT version will win out every time.
I await Tepoc's return and thoughts before proceeding further into the Spirit Stone issue (Please I need direction  )
Jaldon 
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Hojyn
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Post subject: Reviewing Spirit Stones Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:16 am |
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Well, I'm going to play a game with Eldar vs Space Marines tomorrow, and I'd be more than willing to experiment some of the "test" options.
Trouble is, there have been so many propositons I don't really know which one would help the ACs best.
MC23 or Tepoc, could you give us some guidelines? Some areas you'd like us to explore? Some rules you'd like us to test?
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