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Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2****Going for approval*****

 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:25 am 
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Ok. Some further thoughts on the list:-
  • The Windrider host really ought to be called a Troupe in line with the section title and the rest of the Eldar lists.
  • Scout should not be added to the Wind Rider 'host'. This changes their stats, is confusing where the list also includes other Jetbikes and Vypers without scout, and is not necessary since Hornets also have scout.
  • The Hornet stats need to be softened and made more general IMO. As such, I much prefer the E-UK stats and costs. Please consider
      Eldar Hornet, LV . . . . 35cm, Arm 4+ CC 6+ FF 5+ . . . . . Scout, Skimmer
      Star Cannon . . . . 30cm . . . . . AP4+/AT6+
      Bright Lance . . . . 30cm . . . . . AT5+, Lance
      Cost 200 for four, upgrade; one for 25 points
  • Hornets should possibly be allowed to garrison as they are scouts, though I am a bit unsure about this because a 5x Hornet formation makes a reasonable 1st strike against vehicles, even with these reduced stats.
  • I don't think the Wind Rider unit should automatically have Leader. Each Jetbike is already 33 points or 233 for seven units without considering the improved stats for the Wind Rider. If you want to give them 'leader', please consider using Spirit Stones as an upgrade for +25.
  • Guardians should have the Farseer included as per original lists. Making this a character update changes the unit stats which is both unnecessary and confusing. Please make the formation 5 Guardians and a Farseer unit transported in Wave serpents for 275.
  • The Expert rider special rule is definitely not needed as I stated earlier. The point is that the Invulnerable save gives additional protection against MW and titan weapons whilst improving the Jet bike save to 4/9, a fraction off the original save of 4+ (which was previously considered overpowered).
    Furthermore, IS improves the Vyper save to the equivalent of almost 3+, definitely OTT

I hope to try some games with the following list to demonstrate the issues . . . .
    350 Shining Spears (BTS)
    325 Wild Rider clan + Wild Rider chieftain (SC)
    250 Wild Rider clan
    250 Wild Rider clan
    250 Falcons inc 2x Firestorms
    275 Guardians in WS + Farseer inc 1x support weapon
    275 Guardians in WS + Farseer inc 1x support weapon
    250 Guardians in WS inc 1x support weapon
    200 Wind rider host/troupe inc 1x Vyper
    200 Wind rider host/troupe inc 1x Vyper
    200 Wind rider host/troupe inc 1x Vyper
    175 Night Spinners
This is a 12 activation, fast assault list which is very similar to one I have used in the past. The cheaper Guardians make this list possible though more risky (I dread to consider what can be done at 4k :) ) allowing 3-4 huge 'commander' led assaults that can take on most formations up to medium titans.
The list also uses 39 bikes to demonstrate the issues with the invulnerable save (jink) together with Leader in these formations, which makes them much more viable through to the end of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:16 pm 
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On the Farseer, would it be possible to have a 'Windrider Farseer' unit as well as the normal one?
This would allow the list to say replace a Guardian with a Farseer for +25 points, or replace a Jetbike/Vyper with a Windrider Farseer for +25 points.

This approach would permit you to amend the stats of the 'Windrider Farseer' separately, and equally would mean that you can include or remove the Expert Rider special rule without having to check or amend the units - basically following the style of Eldar lists and also simplifying the chore of maintaining this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:32 pm 
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As for Scout on some of the bikes but not on the others, and the Expert Rider rule, I await your experience with this list and the comments of others with interest.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:51 am 
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Understood Greg, though I was meaning that the individual Farseer units would keep 'Invulnerable' in their stats, ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:48 am 
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Hey Greg,
I noticed in your comments on that last report that you are thinking about changing some points values. I might be getting a game in this week so let me know if there's anything you want me to try out.

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 Post subject: Re: Saim-Hann Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:10 am 
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PFE100 wrote:
Hi Matty_C,

well I would like to see in the force if you can

Vampire hunter(one of the items I'm thinking at lowering)..

Aspect warriors(I have not done many games with these guys)..

Hornets..(more testing)

Guardians in WS(points increase as i may just add the Farseer as standard)

So you going to Cancon 2016? I gather you are still in Tas..

Sorry Greg I only just saw this. Didn't get a game in unfortunately. Perhaps next week.
I've just moved back to Tassie. I won't be able to make it to CanCon unfortunately but am looking forward to some sweet reports. ;)

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