I've not seen any EUK players actually use the Spirit Stones upgrade all that often. It's a nice idea in priciple but when it comes to the crunch the option seems to be being edged out most of the time.


I certainly am, against both lists (NetEA & EUK) under discussion, even.

And I'm saying that I never managed to beat the NetEA list when it was being played in my circle. Indeed the player who used the list was a newbie who got pretty quickly disenchanted with Epic because he won every game he ever played, with notable ease.

On the other hand, I've played against the EUK Ulthwe list twice so far, against "Rug" and "Tiny-Tim", and whilst I beat it both times I can easily see how it could take me down.

Indeed, I'd put my first victory against Rug down to a bit of good luck and opponent's unfamiliarity with the list I was using (Cadian list) rather than my skill, and in the second game I don't think Tim would disagree that it was a combination of bad luck and some risky choices on his behalf that lost him the game.

In the game against Tim, in particular, if he'd have had Initiative 1+ Guardian formations, he would have wiped the floor with me, but he failed a number of rolls during the game including one critical roll. He would have failed no rolls at all if he'd have had Initiative 1+.






I think those differences are fairly minor compared to the awesome that is Initiative 1+.

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The issue here is if they should get Approved for the upcoming Army book isn't it? Hopefully there's enough info and opinions here to make a decision on that.

I'll start a thread for suggestions for what Ulthwé actually should have if they are to be stripped of SR5 and black guardians.

sorry, might be worth emphasising a key point here - in the NetEA Ulthwe list YOU CAN ONLY TAKE 1 BLACK GUARDIAN FORMATION FOR EVERY 3 NORMAL GUARDIAN WARHOSTS TAKEN (fractions rounded up), so you would only be able to do the triple Black Guardian retain of doom if you're playing either an absurd amount of guardians or a 5000+ pt game.

You only need 2x 1+ Guardian formations for the retain to be pulled off.
Any old Initiative 1+ formation can be used to start the automatic ball rolling.

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It might be worth noting that the bit about 1 Black Guardian warhost to every 3 Guardian warhosts got left out of the compendium that's currently up on the forum. Not sure if that was intentional or an oversight.

Either way, being able to auto triple-retain with that limit would be pretty difficult unless you want to field all guardians in a 3k. Even to get 2 Black Guardians and 1 Aspect troupe you're looking at 6 Guardian formations, 2 Black Guardian and the Aspect Troupe. That's nearly half your army (1475).

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perhaps if a list you've been playing happily for several years suddenly gets jumped on by a bunch of people that largely play it in a different context if at all then you might get a bit pissed off. It also seems to be a growing trend around here.

There was that limit on Black Guardians that seems to have disappeared. Maybe bring back the old limit before removing them from the game completely.

I have that feeling every year about mud marines..........

but to get 2x 1+ NetEA Black Guardian formations into a situation that they can triple retain you'd need to mechanise them AND have 4 normal guardian formations to allow you to take those Black Guardian which is 1400pts at a minimum, plus 300pts for the Aspects (with wave serpents), unless you happen to have swooping hawks (crap in assaults with only 4) or a portal near by for Warpspiders to jump out of, then it'd be 200pts. Doesn't leave a lot left for buying anything useful with and you'd be left with 4 almost entirely useless Guardian fms for the privilege. That may be a valid tactic, but it seems an awful lot of downsides for something that would take a fair bit of luck and circumstance to pull off successfully.

Was it a deliberate decision to drop the note or an accidental one from when list was updated/formatted?

January's coming up, it's time to do it again!

Oh no, wait, NetEA mud marines are actually fixed now lol.



It's Ulthwe. If there's not a portal nearby, you're not doing Ulthwe the right way.

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I never knew it was gone until I checked the NetEA Eldar draft list and found that it wasn't there. Perhaps that was an accident on Chroma's behalf? I never heard anything about removing it and there doesn't really seem to be any point as Black Guardians are supposed to only represent Ulthwe's increased militarisation of its society, not its complete militarisation (although I'm no fluff expert by any means).

true, but if you're spending a lot of points on mechanised formations, you won't have either the points or activations to spend on a storm serpent or stuff off board. In my experience, it needs to be all one or all another, otherwise the army just doesn't work very well.

It's Ulthwe, you shouldn't need Mech, just lots of Portals.

That's a style that allows you to retain with formations that don't have BM's on them, too, of course.

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