| Purestrain |
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
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| Quote (semajnollissor @ 28 Feb. 2006 (20:06)) | | Quote (Markconz @ 28 Feb. 2006 (14:27)) | | ...why should falcons lose their ability to remove BM just because they have infantry inside them? (if the infantry is outside and the formation is getting shot up that is different). |
Well, it's more of a question of who is in control of the formation. When infantry are being transported, presumably it's the infantry commander that's telling the vehicle drivers what to do. So if the formation starts coming under fire, and the infantry start panicking from the shots impacting the vehicle hulls, perhaps they are the "controlling" factor. Perhaps they're thinking, "dude, if this tank gets blown up, we're getting blown up with it. This is an Eldar tank, it doesn't have any real armor. And who's driving anyway? Is he an aspect warrior on the path of Khaine as battlefield chauffeur? I didn't see that aspect represented at the last pan-aspect council meeting. I think I'll panic. Someone tell the driver to panic." The driver has to appease his passenegers, they are his boss (in this completely made-up scenario that bear no resemblance to real life).
Conversely, in a formation that only has vehicles, there is a tank commander at the top of the food chain. If the vehicle crews (including the tank commanders) decide to panic, they have those handy spirit stones installed to take over/calm them down by emitting reassuring sounds of waves or frogs chirping or good-time oldies from before the Fall or whatever. Since they don't have any whining passengers, they aren't reminded that they should be panicking.
Ultimately, though, the infantry shouldn't get the ability because they have the ability now, and a bunch of people think that is unbalancing. If we go ahead and say that embarked infantry benefit from the ability, why are we even changing the rule? The fluff doesn't matter, we need to find an effect that works. Afterward, we'll bend the fluff to fit the effect.
Also what justification is there for giving spirit stone rules to Vypers - they don't get anything like it in 40k, if they were to get it (maybe to represent their agility or something??) then surely jetbikes should get it too? |
Well, vypers have the same vehicle upgrade options as a Falcon or other 40k eldar vehicle. Admittedly, it's a rare vyper that takes a spirit stone or holo-field because that would nearly double their point cost, but it is possible. Maybe at the Epic scale, they get a bulk discount. The only vehicles that can't take vehicle upgrades are the war walkers (Wraithlords can't take any vehicle upgrades, either, but that's because they aren't technically vehicles in 40k). |
Two arguments then - one from fluff, and one from game balance.
From the fluff POV I imagined that the epic 'Spriit stones' rule is representing the holofields etc that the tanks get in 40k which work even though there are infantry aboard - ie the shot missed the tank cos of a holofield so why should the passengers care??
From the balance POV (more important) I don't think it woudl be at all unbalancing to give Spirit stones to mounted infantry formations (provided the infantry are actually in the tank). Have you played much using these? In my experience, against any competent opponent these formations are some of the most vulnerable and expensive formations in the eldar army - it is usually far more efficient to gate (especially with a storm serpent) or fly infantry in, rather than buying expensive and extremely vulnerable transports. ?
Ie the small boost that spirit stones would give these formations might make them slightly more worthwhile (very slightly - because if they need to rally chances are there will be destroyed transports and infantry running around screaming and negating the ability!).
Vypers on the other hand - fluff argument - yes they can get them - (but as ou say they never do!). From a balance point of view do they need them? I don't think so, but I don't mind if they do get it (it is a small enough factor I think).
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?I'm glad MC23 has finally shut down 'unit ability'.
