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Designng Iyanden
MC23
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:58 pm 
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(Mohawk @ Aug. 30 2006,12:23)
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Now i know that wh40k unly have limited bearing on Epic (have argued that myself ?:p ) But WGs are not more restricted in numbers than any other troop type really. For me that only leaves pricing to balance them.
Well, ill leave it be until BT is finished and teh wh40k codex is out.

Tried fixing the issue with just points with poor results.

Also the rumor did have Wraithguard having a higher toughness but I heard something about them only having 1 wound as well (yet to be verified). This changes a lot.

The idea of a 40K 2 wound model having RA in EPIC is an accepted concept but has serious practical issues when used en masse. Thousand Sons also has had problems with this.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:54 am 
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I'm not seeing how this is different then Space Marine forces consisting of all Terminator detachments with 1-2 Thunderhawks to allow for air assaults and the rest teleporting into position. But, as far as power for the unit goes, I'm still in favor of 3+ save and MW 4+ (Just one shot) off them myself... I personally really love Iyanden, so I'm looking forward to whatever winds up happening with this list. RA tends to represent things which are very hard to kill, Terminators for instance have RA but only 1 wound and only T4 because their armor is extremely difficult to penetrate. Ork Nobz don't have RA despite having 2 wounds, because their armor isn't that good so they go down relatively easily even with 2 wounds. But, I can understand the issues with balance. I'd suspect moving to 4-strong formations might work... But you'd need some way to mitigate the blast-marker issues. Yes they're Fearless so they aren't going to self-destruct when broken, but it's not much fun to have the enemy break half your army on turn one just by firing on them with two formations of his own and killing a single stand between both firings.
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Mohawk
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:31 am 
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changing save to 3+ and givning "invunarable" maybe? it would be a tone down but not to much - a T6, 3+save, unit should have good chance of survival!

1 x MW4+ is more in line of the wraithcannon - its not a "dakka" weapon, its a "Zzap" weapon, meaning that it doesnt have high ROF but it does pack a really heavy punch and as per roumour it will be uppgraded aswell. One wh40k squad of 5 basically always damage a vehicle badly or destroys it, the same goes for monsters. They do have a bit more trouble with inf though and this combined points at a single, better MW attack.

If, heaven forbid, it must be 4 units: "leader" to spirit seer to represent its capabilities to mend damaged WG:s and to soothe their spirits?
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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:23 pm 
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(Mohawk @ Sep. 01 2006,00:31)
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If, heaven forbid, it must be 4 units: "leader" to spirit seer to represent its capabilities to mend damaged WG:s and to soothe their spirits?

I agree with that sentiment.

As for the basic changes to the stat line, it's a tough choice. There is a battle in my brain over how much change can be allowed into the eldar stats/swordwind list. Its a matter of principle - most stats/formations should be able to fit in the game given an appropriate point cost. Also, it would be less work/hassle/contensious if we limit the the changes to just the "broken" items (at least for the first round), and leave the "I don't think these fit [my interpretation of] the fluff and/or the 40k incarnation" type changes for later. Then again, there are a few things that don't jive with my interpretation of the fluff, so I do want to change some things, I just don't know if we should.

That said, wraithguard can be nearly as tough as termies when given certain upgrades (fortune applied to conceal). As for the wraithcannon, I could see going to one shot (fire dragons only have one shot, and fusion guns have the same fire rate, dont they?), but wraithcannon are decidedly more powerful. A big benefit of going to a single shot is that it would work toward limiting MWs in the game as a whole.
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MC23
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:42 pm 
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(Mohawk @ Sep. 01 2006,01:31)
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changing save to 3+ and givning "invunarable" maybe? it would be a tone down but not to much - a T6, 3+save, unit should have good chance of survival!

1 x MW4+ is more in line of the wraithcannon - its not a "dakka" weapon, its a "Zzap" weapon, meaning that it doesnt have high ROF but it does pack a really heavy punch and as per roumour it will be uppgraded aswell. One wh40k squad of 5 basically always damage a vehicle badly or destroys it, the same goes for monsters. They do have a bit more trouble with inf though and this combined points at a single, better MW attack.

If, heaven forbid, it must be 4 units: "leader" to spirit seer to represent its capabilities to mend damaged WG:s and to soothe their spirits?

Current thoughts is trying the Spirit Host as 6 Wraithguard w/ Spirit Seer @ 325 points. Wraithguards should be changed to 3+ save (and loose Reinforced Armor). Not sure if I would like to see anything changed to their gun as they are already being compared to Fire Dragons. ?Their guns end up being too similar when compared in EPIC terms. Plus Wraithguard have an expectation of delivering x amount of firepower at a set amount of cost. Reducing the rate of fire could put them at a disadvantage.

Since Wraithguard are coming under review now I'd like to see these guys really plumbed. The Iyanden list is a great place for us to do that.

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MC23
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:46 pm 
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I updated the proposed list at the beginning of this thread.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:21 am 
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(blackhorizon @ Nov. 22 2005,06:23)
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Maybe this already has been said, but from what I gather this list is the army after Iyanden was attacked by Tyranids, right?

So, Iyanden was saved (more or less) by Yriel showing up late, he braught with him lots of Corsair Eldar. In his Craftworld absence he gathered the biggest pirate fleet ever.

That would mean that their would be lots of Corsair Eldar on Iyanden because I can't imagine Yriel saving the day and then walking of leaving the Craftworld in shatters without helping. At least they would offer protection until the Craftworld could help itself again.

Or am I totally off?
:p

Yriel is now the supreme commander of Iyanden, and he is rock hard :) so maybe a corsair troop would be nice in the list. though I guess that could be guardians

EDIT: the guardian thing has been said by MC23. For some reason I can't read his posts their is something wrong with the HTML. had to look at the page sorce.

BTW. I'm painting an Iyanden army at the moment for EPIC (and one in 40K for my store) so I can get some photos for the final list if you want them. I have spirit seers already done.




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Hojyn
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:17 am 
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(MC23 @ Sep. 10 2006,20:46)
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I updated the proposed list at the beginning of this thread.

Looks good, but I suggest updating the Swords of Vaul formation too.

Now that we have a formation of 6 Wraithguards again, are we back to considering they only take 1 slot in a Vampire or 2 (note that this would make air assault impossible for WG)?

I'll give it a try as soon as I can.
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mageboltrat
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:01 am 
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er... had a thought last night. currently everything is initiative 1+, except spirit hosts, which are 2+. what if we give spirit seers an ability that lowers the initiative to 1+ while they are alive. points might need to be changed, but it does quite accurately represent how Wraith Sight interacts with Spirit Seers in the new codex and in the background. my current name for this ability is insightfull :)




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Flogus
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:07 pm 
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(MC23 @ Sep. 10 2006,21:46)
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I updated the proposed list at the beginning of this thread.

You missed the fact that War Spiders are no more allowed to be transported by Falcons or Wave Serpents

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MC23
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:58 am 
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(Flogus @ Nov. 21 2006,13:07)
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You missed the fact that War Spiders are no more allowed to be transported by Falcons or Wave Serpents

Sorry, I was only worried about unique formations. I don't have plans to micro-update any sub list on Beil-Tan proposed changes. I just wanted a rough test during this time.

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snotgun
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:53 am 
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(MC23 @ Sep. 10 2006,20:46)
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I updated the proposed list at the beginning of this thread.

Updated the PDF accordingly.
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orangesm
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:54 am 
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There was a little mention of this earlier... since Yreil returned with his large Corsair fleet would it not be possible for the Iyanden force to possibly have more than 1 Spacecraft or do we think this would break the list?

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NOVAGUARD
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:07 pm 
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ok, i hate to do heavy tread necromancy. But where is the current standing on this list? has any further development been done or similar?

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:59 pm 
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It's pinned above, but here it is:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=10683
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