Am I looking at the wrong list? The Init mod is still in the Biel-tan ref sheet...
I would not remove fearless, the whole fearless automaton(machine-like?) fealing is a big part of the fluff. Also removing fearless would be a big drawback so I would assume iwe have to lower the cost in that case.
I kind of like the idea of having Iyanden Wraithguards though, it would fit the theme to have the wraithstructures a little more "fleshed out". (my english sucks but I hope you understand... )


Don’t like changes do we
Me neither, the way you decribes it is the way I would like it to be. "Bad" units made better. The Spiritseer would make the Wraithguards good and guide them and without him they are kind of lost in the living world. To me the new 40k ability would reflect this in a way if we made their to-hit worse from the beginning, say MW6+ instead on the Wraithguards but I would suggest keeping the rules about a bonus to their Initiative and make their ”normal” initiative 3+ instead. So without their leader they would be hard to activate and slow but they would still be hard to kill…?
Perhaps changing it so that you would have to be within range and applying it to all wraithunits?
Anyway it will be intresting to see what you come up with

Okay, I can't read. It's the middle of the night here, but somewhere something has gone contrary to expectations.

I thought Spirit Warhosts were either Init. 3+ with mod from the seer or 2+ flat. It seems not to be this way as far back as the 2010 compendium though. I'll look into it in the morning. I should have a very early version of the list (c.2005 or so) on hard copy somewhere.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

take your time, I want to be able to crush my opponent one last time with an 1+ initiative

Okay, Spirit Warrior Warhosts will probably drop to Init 3+.

Wraithblades will be:

Wraithblades INF 15cm AR4+/CC3+/FF5+, Reinforced Armor, Thick Rear Armor, Fearless
Ghost Axes (base) Assault Weapons, EA+1

And so we come to the Wraithknight. Here are my current thoughts:

Wraithknight WE ??cm AR??/CC5+/FF5+, DC2, Reinforced Armor, Holofields???, Walker, Jump Jets, Fearless
2x Heavy D-Cannon 30cm MW3+
2x Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+

So the remaining stats all revolve around interpretation. Is the Wraithknight a small Titan (25-30cm speed, 5+ RA with Holofields) or a large wraith construct (15-20cm speed, with 4+RA and no Holofields). The former feels more Eldar to me, though it deviates from the new codex in some ways, while the latter is true to the codex, but loses some utility and flavor IMO. Opinions requested.

As for changes to list construction, I'm thinking Spirit Warrior Warhosts will be able to mix Wraithguard and Wraithblades freely, and get the option for a single Wraithknight. Spirit Warrior Troupes will also get the option for a Wraithknight. Additionally/alternatively there could be a formation of Wraithknights, probably a trio. Wraithknight cost depends on final statting.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Looking good.
My vote is on a small titan.
Epic already have knights 40k do not, why not "copy" one of them?

Yes! Finaly a weakness in the list! That is really good since with Init 1+ the wraithguards are just to good.

Maybe enforce a stricter rule on force organization? Only two "living" units per wraithguard host?

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With a Spiritseer giving a plus 1 to give the starting formation an Init 2+?

And I assume this would be accompanied by a drop in points for the formation as it stands?

The Spirit Warrior Host is very expensive if you add in any sort of transport.
Without the transport it is very limited in terms of battlefield mobility.



It always seems a bit odd to me that the Living formations only include those with infantry units.
I understand that there are supposed to be fewer living individuals in the mechanised units, but, . . .

Personally I am happy with the lose current ruling, as it allows a little more variation for an Iyanden army. But I also recognise that if I wanted something different I'd also happily just use my toys with an army list for a different craftworld, . . .

What mordoten is talking about (I think) is that in the current ruling you can have one of every living unit per spirit warrior warhost. So if I buy 2 spirit warrior warhost I can take 2 guardians, 2 windriders, 2 aspects etc.
He (and me) want it to be 2 spirits = 2 of any living unit.

Yes, that is what i mean!Uvenlord is correct on that.

And i also strongly disagree with a points drop when the init value gets changed. As it stands now they (wraithguards) are far to good for their points value IMO.

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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I would recommend cutting 100-150p per unit if we lower the Initiative to 3+ but adding CC troops and cutting Initiative might be a good swap so we can keep the point cost.

Yes, with the bonus making them Init2+ in most circumstances.

I see no reason to change pricing, for one Wraithguard are 50pt/stand in Biel-Tan, and have Int2+. Add the Spiritseer and you're at 325 at a bare minimum.

Changing The Living Few in that manner could drastically alter balance. I'm not dead set against it, but it would need to be examined very carefully.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

True, that would limit the cheap activations even more. In a 3000p list this will probobly mean no more than 2 (sometimes 3) living units... I do not see this as a game breaker but lets se what the knight and CC wraiths gives us and then we can revisit this one?

That sounds reasonable.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Wraithknight WE 35cm AR5+/CC5+/FF5+, DC2, Reinforced Armor, Holofields, Walker, Jump Jets, Fearless. Critical Hit: Destroyed.
2x Heavy D-Cannon 30cm MW3+
2x Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+

Add as option to Spirit Warrior Warhost and Guardian Warhost for +150 points. Unlike other upgrades this may be taken alongside Wave Serpents.

Add the following Support Formation: Tearhunter Spirit Troupe - 425pt. Three Wraithknights.

I decided that the only way that the Wraithknights would be viable options as upgrades would be to allow them to join and match pace with mech. formations. To stat them at lower speeds and/or not allow them alongside Wave Serpents would hamstring the parent formation by eliminating all three effective deployment methods - mechanized, air drop, and portal.

Pricing - It may need adjusting. For now I think it's at least close.

Name - In the new Codex Wraithknights are designed to travel to the Crone Worlds and harvest raw soulstones, the Tears of Isha. As such they may eventually find their way into the Iybraesil list, but one step at a time.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Hi there!

I recently played against Iyanden with SL. And yes the wraithguard option is really strong, if not stronger than terminators. (I found SM termies the most closest formation from different faction.) Every other Eldritch stuff was fine as it is, only the wraithguard felt to be stronger than what they cost, currently. Perhaps it comes down that FF vs FF unit clash usually favours the stronger FF unit, unless you get into close combat, but then the wraithguard CC happen to be still good, compared to IG in general.

The nerf with initiative rating, sounds reasonable, I support it, though the air assault Vampire combo is still super-efficient, very hard to defend against, unless you overdefend and lose the frontline...

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