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Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2

 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Regarding the Warlock, for those who have not thought of / tried / faced one, it is an 'assault monster' and arguably the best Battle titan going. The point is that it is fast and has 11x 3+ dice in FF assault, and with Farsight it can assault automatically in a retain. Combine these with hit-&-run, and it can easily initiate a rolling assault providing huge support for other attacks. Its best use is in conjunction with several warhosts and other formations all grouped in support range of each other near the enemy targets.

I agree with Steve that allowing the Warlock to summon the Avatar under these conditions is a significant boost to the Eldar, as it presents two automatic assaults in the local area (Avatar commanding one and the Warlock retaining), which will almost certainly permit a huge third assault. While not guaranteed to be game winning this strategy will put a severe dent in virtually all opposing armies. :D

It is this aspect that needs to be tested more outside the E-UK environments . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:00 pm 
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Batrep Steel Legion Vs Biel-Tan v4.2

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=29496

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:42 am 
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Reading the first page and the PDF below Fire Prisms are a free upgrade. However this hasn't made it in to the tournament pack (although it says that it should be).
Does this mean that it still needs more testing?

Also the Cobra is an interesting one as it seems a bit weak now that it has gone to MW 4+ while retaining its short range.

With all this being said I will need to give Biel Tan a go (only played one game with my Eldar and that was using Ulthewe).

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:59 am 
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Hi All,

I'll confess to my epic experience being limited (though I've been ravaged by Eldar a few times now!) but for what it's worth these are my thoughts.

The warlock is far too good for its points. I can live with it being a combat monster but combining that with it's Holofield AND hit and run AND summoning an avatar it just becomes insane for the same points as a warlord titan.

Personally I don't think any titan should have hit and run, nor should it be able to summon an avatar. At least then it can't mix with the incredible synergies of the double retain and a fairly high strat rating. What's really horrible about it is how easy it is to run out engage something (with large movement) then support another engage right next door with a second unit or even the avatar for a potential 3rd support without your opponent being able to react at all. No significant risk factors despite blast markers etc... just too damn reliable.

Combine that with the Holofield which is easily the best defensive system in the game and you really have an auto win option. I'm yet to find a Biel-tan player who isn't running one of these and frankly I'm not surprised! The holofield could be made like the knights invulnerable which is susceptible to crossfire and thus has a clear weakness which can be exploited. It could even take the D(?) hits from TK weapons first which make it plausible to at least damage the thing. Currently though in the hands of a decent player it just has too many awesome options. Feels more like try and kill what I can in the rest of the army and just avoid this basically unkillable thing. Reminds me of 7th edition undead deathstars. :)

The rest of the eldar list I can honestly live with, it's fast, flexible and hitty but if you play it badly you pay for it, IMO even a muppet would be hard pressed to go wrong with a warlock.


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:18 am 
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Holofields are already affected by crossfire

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Steve54 wrote:
Holofields are already affected by crossfire


:{[] My point was a that when hit with a TK weapon a knights shield goes from stopping 50% damage (inv) to stopping 0% because it is completely negated by crossfire. A holofield goes from stopping 66% to stopping 50% with crossfire... Note even vaguely comparable if you are trying to argue that crossfire is a legitimate option to taking out a Warlock...

PFE100 wrote:
Hi
The unkillable monster is killable and its die about 4 times all up in the last 15 games that we have played. I believe it been broken a few time too at the end of some of the games too..Yes it a monster...take's a shit load of Firepower to kill..but it can be broken and killed...


Of course it is "possible" to kill it, that's not the issue, the issue is that it is under pointed, there isn't anything much out there worth the same points that would take it out. If you read your own battle reports PFE100 you would notice that the amount of times the warlock dies is vastly outweighed by the number of times you will read "Warlock titan engages, unit X is wiped from the board..."

It's ability to summon the avatar on top of that combined with triple retain is massively OP. :sos

PFE100 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to leave feedback, much appreciated and thanks for playing against mic...


Ha people keep saying things like that, almost like he has a bad rep or something! I love playing Mic, I can only imagine that beating him in Epic will be like punching Hitler. Can't wait for that day. :spin


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:06 pm 
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while I agree that giving it the ability to summon the avatar is a needless buff, one of the few arguments against the eldar basically getting a free greater daemon is that you need farseers or equivalent to summon it, having a very tough, DC6 fearless war engine as a backup really means you can't stop the eldar summong the avatar by cheekily snagging all the farseers....

however I think it's about right at 850, in a 3k army that means you can't fit any air units into the list so you're relying on the ground pounders, it's also a big bite out of your points total and an army with a warlock is unlikely to have more than 10/11 activations, several of which will be relatively cheap and vulnerable, certainly not optimal for the eldar in general

a canny opponent will use scout screens to limit the movement options of the warlock and feed it cheap formations while concentrating on taking the rest of the eldar army to bits.... at DC6 it's also within the realms of possibility to break through blast markers alone, and although scant consolation, it *is* vulnerable to crossfire, something my reaver titans have found particularly painful ;)

none of this is meant to disparage anyone, the warlock is definitely the best top-end battle titan and is almost always a better choice than a warlord titan or great gargant in other armies, I just think that in the context of the effect it has on the eldar list it's just about okay as it is

although it definitely doesn't need to be able to summon the avatar, that's a buff the eldar list just doesn't need.... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Spot on Kyuss.


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:38 am 
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Beefcake4000 wrote:

Ha people keep saying things like that, almost like he has a bad rep or something! I love playing Mic, I can only imagine that beating him in Epic will be like punching Hitler. Can't wait for that day. :spin


Haha, this made me laugh pretty hard

I too can't wait for the day, we need to take his casino and podhammer dice off him


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan Craftworld v4.2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:27 am 
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Thanks for keeping us informed. Should be an interesting ERC debate on this one.

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