Well, is there any problem with the list -next to the 1/2/3+ init of the WG? so why not to modify it to 2+, and forget the Spiritseers special ability?

If the AC is inactive, let's playtest every idea, share the experiences here, and then discuss it with him -if he's still inactive, choose a new AC. That's how it should be!

Btw, all battreps are wellcome, but try to piont out a few things regarding the problems with the list -not just simply share it!

Well said, Pati

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Nice report!

I think the combination of point increase and dropping the unit count by 2 is a little overboard. They would be so easy to break, yes they have fearless but you loose the activation. I do agree they are quite powerful in the current 4.1 but I would think you either increase the points OR decrease the unit size. Maybe by 1 rather than 2.

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I thought the Init drop from 1+ to 2+ and a more restrictive "living few" rule (2 support instead of 3 for every wraithguard/wraithlord host) was the 2 issues that most people felt was most important to
Look at.

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Thanks for the report PFE100 – interesting result, and most importantly to me, the army looked like an Iyanden one from the background. The smaller formation size seems to it the background better, making the formations more brittle.


That's the joy of playtesting – you get to focus on the bits that you want to investigate, and try out your own ideas. If the AC gives requests for playtesting, then that helps direct things, but in their absence, better to have people try their own solutions to their perceived problems

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4 units for 375p?! come on man was a bad joke. I will play with Marines instead, and buy hordes of termies 1+ init, ATSKNF, CC/FF 3+, MW3+ and teleport for 350p -and no drawback like the living few.

Just be a bit more careful about changing the list to radically -no need of point increase, nor a drop of 2 units -just the balance by correcting the initiative..

I completely agree with this over point and unit size changes. Bravo for taking the initative though!

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btw, I played a lot with the current ulthwé list -so a limit of 2 troops/warhost is a bit strong! In the Ulthwé lsit, guardians are just 150p formations, but in this case, Spirit Warhosts are much more -so maybe they will loose the flexibility of the eldar lists with this change!

I actually like the idea of reducing to 4 units, I think it makes them work well if deployed by vampire (they should take 2 spaces each) and wave serpent. I think it is problematic if delivered via webway but if they have an option to add extra wraithguard/lords -instead- of wave serpents that might solve it IMO.

The problem I think at the moment is not just that they are very powerful, but that they are also expensive. That cost of course is a consequence of their power, but it is a problem itself. The combination of their cost and the list restrictions makes the list both inflexible for the eldar player and intimidating for their opponent. I think with smaller cheaper WG formations it'd mean you'd see a bit more variety, and you'd need fewer fearless 4+RA MW toting firefight monsters to get the other more varied stuff. A win for both players.

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So 275 for formation of 4 units with spiritseer, and a +75 for another +2 units option? It's good for the flexibility, and allows different styles of play. At their current price, i dn't think too much people used more than 2 formations of WG.. So they are easy to evade -try them against titans -you will fail in engaging them.. So they are not superheroes! Small units may break very fast, but with keeping them 6 unit strong by an option, it's reasonable for me..

Remember, if you need activations, you still have guardians, rangers, war walkers..

Sur ewe might try this but I actually feels this will be a boost for the Iyanden. The high cost is the thing that currently restricts me from taking 4 or 6 formations.(That and a very low activation number) If we add the flexibility to buy 4 and add 1-2 that would be a big boost. (assuming it gets a price reduction)
I might sound like a grumpy old man but I play Iyanden mostly because of the Wraithguards and lords, if I want the rest of the flavors I play Biel-Tan...


That said it might be worth a shot to try out a 4 "man" strong formation, but like pati said before, why not try one thing at a time. No need to try both a int drop and a lower number and points increase and 2 seats in the vampire at once. I do not think they are that overpowered
Also, we have already had a lot of good suggestions back in this thread on what to do to make the Iyanden a fair opponent. Perhaps it might be good to check them out?

PFE100, in the recent game report had 5 of his smaller Wraithguard formations, FOUR of them mounted up in Wave Serpents. This mades a 8 unit strong, tough mobile formations for 575 points. This is also in the context of a large 5000 point game. The test with a "four strong" formation was actually a test of a wave serpent mounted wraithguard formation. With eight RA 4+ units in the formation I'd expect them to perform well.

The current standard mounts Wraithguard formation is 12 units for 650 points. This is a huge formation and given the capability of the units really bigger than it needs to be for most tactical situations. In my experience the mounted wraithguard are so scary and so costly that it is a realistic strategy to just avoid them, as you may well do if not equipped to take on a titan. Couple that with shooting out one or two transports and you have pulled their teeth (somewhat).

I'd happily play with the proposed smaller mounted wraithguard formations but 4 unit strong foot formations would be a non-starter. Consider a standard upgraded guardian formation (Farseer, 7 Guardians, 3 Wraithguard) for 300 points. Sorry, 4 Wraithguard plus a Spirit Seer for 375 points makes NO SENSE.

I was interested in tracking down what happened with PFE100's foot Spirit Host. This emerged from a Wraith Gate on (the extreme flank? in) turn two for an engagement backed up by 3 engines of vaul, then marched to sit on an objective turn three. It only just survived unbroken from ONE formation firing at it in turn 3. Not a lot of utility for a 375 points formation. But pretty well handled tactically, I must say.


I love my Iyanden army and would like to see it move towards approved. To do that requires convincing people WHO DON'T PLAY ELDAR and who REFUSE TO PLAY IYANDEN that all is now OK; that the list is balanced, . . . ? Identifying the objections more clearly might help? Some of it is to do with the Eldar special rules in general but, . . . .

The two (three?) things that strike me are:

(1) Automatic triple retain. This comes from Init 2+, upgraded with the Spirit Seer initiative rule (moving to Init 1+), and the Spirit Seer farsight rule (keeping Init 1+ on a retain and allowing an extra retain).

(2) Large Powerful Tough Fearless formations sitting on objectives. Webgate, Vampire, Wave Serpent, or Garrison, delivers them on location and the opponent can't shift them.

(3) Cheap extra supporting formations. The Living Few weak rule gives the impression of not restricting the number of supporting units. In fact even the proposed strong versions lets you pad with other formations anyway.


Solutions (?):

(1) Spirit Seer loses the +1 on initiative but retains Farsight. The Wraith Seer keeps both along with supreme commander.

(2) Reduce stats on the Wraithguard, eg, make Wraith Cannon, small arms, MW without the extra attack. This gets rid of 6 dice in assault, keeps it fluffy with a MW attack. Also gives an extra MW attack guided by the better perception of the world as provided by the Spirit Seer's vision, EA+1.
ALSO
Make the mounted option: remove 2 wraithguard and add 4 Wave Serpents for 100 points (or 150 points).

(3) Use 2 Troupes per War Host taken. Change The Living Few rule to match the Epic UK one.

My suggestions would be:
1. Drop the initiative bonus on the Spirit seer.
2.Tighter "The Living Few" rules.

I really think that is enough to convince my opponents to play again...