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Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:55 am 
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Neal, I wasn't making it up.  I went online and did as much research as I could.  The link above (see Malika's post) and others all pointed in the same direction.

Even the star chart shows Lugganath close to Tir'asur.  I wish I had the capacity for fiction, but I don't.  So I am borrowing everyone else's.  Now how much of this is made up by fans I don't know but the consistency of posts, stories, and information seem to indicate more than just a fan-based fiction.

So to answer your question about the knights - yes and no.  Yes I want to match the AMTL list, but that isn't the only reason.  I want the list to match the fiction and the inclusion of knights would certainly show a blending of technology and military.  Also the knights are cool looking. :;):

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Hey Mosc:  I phrased that poorly.  You may not have made it up personally, but it's definitely not canon.

There is extremely little information about the Eldar titan clans and about the same amount about the non-big-5 craftworlds in GW pubs.

AFAIK, Anargo, while really cool and a tremendous effort, is fan-based.  While nothing in the Anargo Lugganath background contradicts any published work I know of, it takes a number of liberties.  I think some of the background development would be handled very differently by GW should they decide to ever develop it.  In particular GW has moved away from the WEs-as-walkers theme, giving direction that the newer races (Tau, Necrons) will absolutely not have titan equivalents.

I don't think they would throw out Eldar knights but I do think they would resist a contrivance to make a big-walker-little-walker force.  It would require multiple devices that are tenuous with the current background.  The big ones to my mind are 1) Exodites and Craftworld Eldar are not usually close allies, having opted for radically different lifestyles; 2) physical proximity is a very minor consideration for contact/travel compared to the webway so an alliance based on physical location is not well supported.  There are other minor ones, much more likely to be over-written, but present in the current canon nonetheless.

In short, I don't think the style is in keeping with the 40K-verse in its current incarnation and the current direction is pointed even farther away.

===

All that said, it's highly unlikely that there will ever be even a semi-official Exodite, Eldar Knight, or Titan Clan list.  To quote L4, since it's a fan list DWWFY.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Fair enough.  I don't have the extensive knowledge of GW's inner workings that many of you have, so unfortunately I am forced to rely on whatever the internet can provide. :blush:

I have an idea what I want the core of Lugganath to look like: many different types of titans based on the models produced by GW.  With that said, I am not rigid on the Support formations for the list.  I set up a poll to get a feel of where people would want to see the list go.  Go vote and come back here to discuss! :)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:16 pm 
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I can see a sharing of technology leading to the inclusion of knights, but I'm not sure including low-tech Exodites would make sense.

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malika
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:02 pm 
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I doubt GW will give any more new real info on the Knights anytime soon.

Besides at the ASP we're trying to give our interpretation of GW's fluff, as in trying to show that so much more can be done with there is without in every novel there being yet another cliche god or superweapon of which there is only one in the entire galaxy.

As for the Exodites, I doubt they are low tech, sure they decided to do more "manual labour" and live a more harsh livestyle, but this does not mean they have become savages.

Its very cool to see other people here including stuff from the Anargo Sector Project in their own stuff, which encourages us to do more as well :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Where does the idea that Lugganath is a "heavy Titan" craftworld come from initially?

The brief sentence of flavour text in the new Codex is merely this:

"The renegades of Lugganath foster close ties with the Harlequins, for they hope to abandon this galaxy and start civilisation afresh, claiming the webway as their realm."

The flavour text for Yme-Loc seems more like a Titan/armour Craftworld, and would seem to be the perfect place for the dreaded "Grav-Tank Warhost".

"The Eldar of Yme-Loc are talented artisans, and their armies are supported by powerful grav-tanks and Titans."

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:41 pm 
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(malika @ Dec. 06 2006,16:02)
QUOTE
As for the Exodites, I doubt they are low tech, sure they decided to do more "manual labour" and live a more harsh livestyle, but this does not mean they have become savages.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Exodites are savages. I guess I should have been more explicit. What I meant to say was that I think Lugganeth would not be interested in lower-tech Exodites, like the Dino riders.

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malika
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:51 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Dec. 07 2006,14:41)
QUOTE

(malika @ Dec. 06 2006,16:02)
QUOTE
As for the Exodites, I doubt they are low tech, sure they decided to do more "manual labour" and live a more harsh livestyle, but this does not mean they have become savages.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Exodites are savages. I guess I should have been more explicit. What I meant to say was that I think Lugganeth would not be interested in lower-tech Exodites, like the Dino riders.

Wgt not? I think that Craftworlds like Lugganath and Biel Tan believe that the Eldar should reclaim power of their former empire. While Biel Tan does this mainly by a very militaristic means of the Sword Wind, Lugganath would use its colonies for this. And both are quite willing to work together with the Exodites. I dont mind seeing more Exodite involvement in this. They are still an important element in the reconquest of the galaxy by the Eldar

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:53 pm 
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(Chroma @ Dec. 07 2006,12:49)
QUOTE
Where does the idea that Lugganath is a "heavy Titan" craftworld come from initially?

The brief sentence of flavour text in the new Codex is merely this:

"The renegades of Lugganath foster close ties with the Harlequins, for they hope to abandon this galaxy and start civilisation afresh, claiming the webway as their realm."

The flavour text for Yme-Loc seems more like a Titan/armour Craftworld, and would seem to be the perfect place for the dreaded "Grav-Tank Warhost".

"The Eldar of Yme-Loc are talented artisans, and their armies are supported by powerful grav-tanks and Titans."

I hadn't read the new Codex.  I was just moving off the fluff that the Fir Iolorian Titan Clan were the salvation of the Lugganath Craftworld when it was all but destroyed.

As for ties with Harlequins and wanting to leave the galaxy, it certainly flies in the face of everything else out there, whether it be fan based or not.  Most of the Anargo Sector stuff talks about the expansionist mentality, colonization, trade with Tir'asur, etc.  

Personally I think between Sotec's Harlequin add-ons and my Harlequin Black Library List, the clowns have their mark on Epic.

Lugganath struck me as the best candidate for the Titans given the Fir Iolorian and the fact that nobody has tried making a craftworld list for them yet.  I'm not sure about Yme-Loc, but you may be right.  But hasn't somebody already made an army list for them?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:58 pm 
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Chroma, the other thing I was thinking is that Yme-Loc was more Grav Tank oriented than Titan oriented, in that they mention Grav tanks first.  That may seem like I am reading into things, but who knows.

It may be just that I want my Titan list with a move AWAY from Grav tanks - I want to see the Eldar fight without floating. :p

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Chroma
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:14 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Dec. 07 2006,14:58)
QUOTE
It may be just that I want my Titan list with a move AWAY from Grav tanks - I want to see the Eldar fight without floating. :p

But they float like an eggshell and sting like a laser-powered bee!  *laugh*

I certainly do appreciate a "Titan-heavy" Eldar list, just wish I had the Titans to do it justice!  *laugh*

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:36 pm 
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I should feel relieved that only one person wants me and my list burned at the stake.

Good grief!  :O

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:40 pm 
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NEW UPDATE (see attached here or at top of thread)

I've updated the list based on the anti-Exodite feedback (sorry Anargo fans, but it was probably too much in one list anyway).

Knights remain.  

I am still struggling with the stats on the Knights.  The Swordwind stats are just over the top, but mine seem a bit weak.  I'd like to see them armed with a minimal amount of ranged MW to keep the list balanced, but past that I'm open to suggestions.

Also toying with the idea of a different type of War Walker.  Perhaps a non-scout version.

Thoughts?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:54 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Dec. 08 2006,14:40)
QUOTE
NEW UPDATE (see attached here or at top of thread)

Gave it a quick once-over, and now a couple of things:

1) Why is the Guardian Warhost 150 points?  It's smaller than the standard one and lacks a Farseer, but costs the same.

2) Two of the "original" Eldar Titans are named after spectral things: Phantom, Revenant, so why not name the others with something in the same theme?  Wraith Scout Titan and Spectre Sentry Titan perhaps.

3) The Lucent Sceptre seems really powerful, granting abilities to other formations will be very hard to balance.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Lugganath Craftworld 0.1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:17 pm 
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I thought I changed the cost of the Guardians to 125...
Hmmm. ???

As for names of such, I just came up with them quickly then translated them into Eldar.  As I said before, this is a 0.2 version - it is more of a framework for what would become the list.  A lot will change no doubt by the time I get a 1.0 out there.

The reason for me posting this at all was to get a feel for how people would like to see the list develop (or IF they would like to see it develop).  Most people like the idea of the Knights, some the Exodites, and others just the Titans.  Fortunately a small number of people want to see it (and me) dead. :p

What are your thoughts on the Knights?  I feel they are priced well for what they are, but will they hold up?  Should their stats be increased?

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