Is this all just personal opinion from all sides? Yes.

OK, aside from special ML vs Hit and Run rules (let's call that a wash, shall we?)

Is 2x 4+AA much better than 2x5+AA? Yes. Obviously, without a doubt.
Do Eldar get to put double the amount of more effective units on the board there by gaining a much better AA umbrella? Yes.

Like I said, not sure which direction we should look at the comparison from but even vs the Hydra, the Firestorm outshines it. Is it truly still worth only 50 points...?

Thats not how you count its cost. It can only be deployed 2 at a time within a 250 point falcon troupe for 5 units. It can't join a core formation, nor any other support formation. Without the firestorm option, when would you take falcons, as opposed to Engines of Vaul or Vypers?

All this said, the falcon troupe could perhaps do with a 25 point upgrade cost. The firestorm did get a fantastic deal out of the pulse rule change, and so did the falcon.

The Skyray has 60 cm AA. That's Huge as opposed to 45 cm. Perhaps the skyray could do with a price decrease to 75 points I don't know. I really don't think the two units are comparable, nor are the formations in which they can be picked.

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Regardless of how it's situated in a formation, you still get the option of 4x AA4+.... That's a killer AA unit for the same points as 1 Skyray or 2 Hydras. AND a unit that can FF well and shoot directly as well vs all unit types at 45cm without hinderance (can't say the same for the Skyray - it only unloads a full effect salvo if a target is within 30cm).


+5 points per tank? That's minimalist at best, but at least a start. I really feel that with a decrease in the Fire Prism cost, you could bump the Firestorm up to 65 points as a trade off. I can't remember ever seeing a Falcon fm without a Firestorm.... If you want increase in one unit type, why should you not consider a decrease in another? Particularly in the same formation. It would all even out essentially.


In a game with so many intricate balances you gotta start somewhere with comparisons. As I mentioned, how does the Firestorm compare to the Hydra for the same price...?

Eldar in NetEA have very limited groundbased AA options. Something that was a shift from Swordwind Eldar which had really superb (OTT) AA options. I would be happy to see more expensive FS's if it was possible to deploy them more freely, say 2 in a formation of 3 e.g. Right now most are forced to take falcons just to get access to groundbased AA making the ubiquitous Fire Storms unsurprising.

Raising the cost to 65 points will just make AA more expensive for Eldar.
(once again, if it was possible to deploy Fire Storms without the surcharge of the falcons I would absolutely argue for a cost increase myself)

Anything not in the annual Compendium *is* a test list.

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Regardless of how it's situated in a formation, you still get the option of 4x AA4+.... That's a killer AA unit for the same points as 1 Skyray or 2 Hydras. AND a unit that can FF well and shoot directly as well vs all unit types at 45cm without hinderance (can't say the same for the Skyray - it only unloads a full effect salvo if a target is within 30cm).

its not a moot point as you try to infer, look at hydra's as a example, you can buy 3 as a support formation for 150 points, so thats 6 x AA5+
where as the eldar have to spend minimum 250 points to get 4 x AA4+ im no math wiz but that works out about the same right in hit results yet its 100 points cheaper to get the same result via hydra's. yes the falcons are there but were comparing AA attacks here.

If anything it sounds like maybe the Tau needs looking at more than the eldar ? i dont much experienec with tau so i cant make a comment on it really, but as a Eldar player i only every use 1 set of firestorms and most of the time i dont want the falcons i take them to get the AA, which makes it expensive at 250 points.

I think comparing firestorms to skyrays is a bit of a sidetrack really, and not very useful..... skyrays can shoot guided missiles at any markerlit stuff, so they're not limited to 30cm for full effect if there is another markerlight formation near the target, they can take part in co-ordinated fire actions.... etc etc.

they play a different role to a firestorm, that both formations have AA capability is only part of the story, which makes them difficult to compare, as it is difficult to compare any similar unit across different lists.....

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Tau AA is pretty damned good compared with anyone's. Skyrays are also a source of markerlights for any unit they're part of - very, very good upgrade for those mounted firewarrior fms doubling or singling into shooting positions.

With regard to AA cover. Adding a Skyray to a foot fire warrior unit (or a hydra to a foot company) also allows you to garrison the AA assets well up the table. That extends the AA bubble pretty well early on. Not something you can do with a Firestorm.

And returning to Eldar stuff for the moment, Fire Storms do form the staple ground-based AA for Eldar, although Cobras and titans (and swordwind Prisms) can provide some AA cover as well. Reducing the Prism costs to 50 points means NetEa lists can now mix in Prisms, but the question is still whether people will actually do this.

At 3000 points, in my experience it is rare to have more than two 'Falcon' formations (unless you are trying my pop-corn style force ), so what variations would people try? Favourites would seem to be

• Five Prisms
• Three prisms and two Fire Storms
• One Prism, two Falcons, two Fire Storms

are there any other viable combinations worth trying out?

I expect we'll see, in order of regularity:

3-4 Falcons, 2 FS: AT/Support Fire
5-6 FP: AT Sniping
3-4 FP, 2 FS: AT Sniping/AA
2-3 Falcons, 1 FP, 2 FS: AT/Support Fire with range stretch.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Would you care to hazard a guess at the frequency these formations might be used. Eg

1. 55%
2. 25%
3. 15%
4. 5%

Another way of looking at this might be to ask the wider question of how often people field six strong SoV formations, and compare that with the frequency they field the current 5x Fire Prism formations.

I'd weight it even more heavily.

a. >/=65%
b 15%
c. </=5%
d. </=5%

I generally field five-strong formations, with only a sixer if I have some spare points.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

So, if I read this correctly, we might anticipate a ratio of four or more "Falcon" formations for each "all Fire Prism" formation, and rather fewer multi-type formations containing one or two Fire Prisms.

Does everyone else agree with this view, and does it meet with people's expectations for actual usage from the fluff? ie are Fire Prisms that rare?

In 'normal' lists (ie not 'spam' lists), I mainly field one or two six-strong SoV.