Everyone should note the smile on that description and be worried (at least for your goats).

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

my goats are very happy, thanks!

interesting EpicUK list, feels like a mix of new and old lists - 75cm Fire Prism AA is there for example. I also think the 25pts for formation wide Leader is seriously undercosted - I'd instantly buy it for pretty much all my formations. The obligate Black Guardians is an interesting idea though..

I completely agree and I think the list does an excellent job. I'm only saying that, as a result of the list structure, the Guardian heavy army leads me to only 1 successful strategy which is Guardian+wraithguard fms assaulting out of a wraithgate/ storm serpent. I've tried loading them into waveserpents, air assaulting and foot slogging, but none of those has been as successful, largely due to their fragility or accumulation of blast markers. Honestly, I've played Ulthwe exclusively for the last 2 years and done pretty well with them, I just want to try some different strategies, which I don't feel I can with Ulthwe. That's not meant to be a criticism of the list, just a summary of my experiences



I like the 1+ init (ooh the no. of times I've failed activations playing Ulthwe), I really do, however I don't like the fact that they either need to be in wave serpents (expensive, leaving them loaded up for max assault range can be perilous IME) or airdropped (where they die like flies from return fire). Actually, the biggest reason I don't use them is that, in the NetEA list, they can't take wraithguard, which are the complete shiz for Guardians in assaults. Nevermind the EA MW (which I rarely ever hit with, grr), it's the 4+RA soaking up return fire which makes the difference. Without that, I'd rather save my pennies or spend them on some support weapons to bolster no.s and risk the 2+ init.

I did, honest! It just had a knock on effect elsewhere, reducing my activation count and making it hard to keep my deep strike ability (warp spiders in a vampire) as I had to compromise elsewhere in the list. I also found it quite hard to use them in assaults - when I kept them loaded up to get the 50cm FF range, I lost at least a wave serpent and 2 guardians every time (once lost 3 wave serpents to 2 skyray fms on OW with their missiles, didn't see that coming), which completely scuppers the assault. When I kept them unloaded and in cover, the didn't really do all that much, as their ranged fire isn't that great and most opponents avoided the 30cm FF range. Guess I just haven't found the right way of using them (although I love putting Aspects in them for BielTan).

On the other hand, 2 fms of Guardians+wraithlords, a storm serpent and a gate is a killer fm - advance or double with the storm serpent, fire on target for the BM, retain with guardians (usually wiping out the target for 1 or 2 losses) then if you're lucky, consolidate to support and assault out of the gate with the 2nd Guardian fm on triple retain It is 200pts more than 2x Guardians in wave serpents (or 150pts more than 1x Guardians and 1x Black Guardians in WS), but you get another fm AND the ability to deliver pristine assault fms onto the enemy almost anywhere. The downside is that the Storm serpent becomes a no. 1 target and also that the Guardians lose a lot of their mobility when they're deployed.