I suspect that this is a case of sticking them out in the open and getting shot to pieces (and then being unable to activate).

Well, I have found that they can be quite resilient if hidden behind terrain in such a way as to force the opponent to double to shoot at them, and then considering Marshalling rather than trying to shoot. An alternative is to keep them off-table, and arrive through a 'gate - they can provide a very nasty surprise to any armour within 50cm which can mean most of the table if a Storm Serpent has got into the middle.

So they don't have problems as far as I am concerned

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Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

To get this impression right. I do not think that spaceships are bad but it is just a feeling. We also do not use Stormserpents or one of our Marine player does not use scouts categorically because "risking the future of the chapter?? Never!". So I think you are right, they are ok regarding balance.

Because of this, I do not think I can comment on the balance issues in any other matter than expressing my feelings because I do not know any tournaments. Eldar feel right but I also see some points Ginger is raising.

I do use Warwalkers (mostly two formations) and after some initial disappointments I learned to use them and they do pose a real threat to advancing mechanised formations. In cover (walker really helps there) they are quite resilient to. Like ´em   Phoenixes are to expensive in comparison to nightwings. Most of the time the extra 100 points are better spend elswhere I feel.

Surely 2 lots of scouts are a better bet?

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While That is true for Swordwind, one of the proposed changes in the Draft Eldar list here is to remove the Fireprism formation and allow them as an upgrade to the Falcon formation, replacing falcons at 65 points each.

This causes two problems; it allows the creation of a monster AT formation that is relatively resilient (5-6 AT2 Lance shots is going to hurt!), while the odd point mechanism screws up the list (more of an irritant than a problem)

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"Play up and play the game"

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I'll be using the Net-EA list now I'm not using the Eldar at or before a tournament .

I think the change of role for the Fire Prism is good to me, they should not be AA formations and the Eldar have excellent AA with Nightwings and Fire Storms anyway.

As a whole the list seems very good. I don't think I've not played with it enough to comment whether anything is needed re: spirit stones and that.

I realise the Scorpions and Cobras are less well regarded that the Void Spinner and the Storm Serpent, if the consensus is that this is the case could a points drop for these two tanks to 225pts each help? Maybe a boost to Banshees too if that hasn't already been done. A small points drop for Falcons transports for Aspect Warriors wouldn't hurt either; no-one ever, ever takes these for them now.

Pretty certain that's a deliberate change in the Net-EA Eldar lists and has been for some time, it's the 'Swords of Vaul' formation that's not present in Swordwind.

I like playing Eldar (Ulthwe almost exclusively) and I do find them quite punishing to play, particularly against more experienced players. that's not a criticism of the list though, more of myself They're very sensitive to deployment and BMs, so often for me the game is lost before I even start

The lack of Leader is a bit of a bummer, would that upset things too much if Farseers, Exarchs and Autarchs get them? Or would that make fms with those too cheap?

Difficult to comment on other units as how each unit is used (or it's individual stats) are so tied in with the "Eldar way". Scorpion seems a little undergunned (on range mostly, 60cm feels short), but then again it is a skimmer with 25cm move and does have the Hit and Run rule. Cobras are difficult to use, but potentially awesome, but I would agree that Void Spinners are the best SHGT. Though that does depend on who you're using them against - vs. Marines they're okay, vs. Guard they're awesome. Same could be said about the Scorpion though (though the opposite).

Only used Warwalkers once, where they got shot to pieces. Bit too expensive to use them that way (Rangers are much cheaper and just as effective a road bump) but I'd probably try them again as suggested above.

Fireprisms - very useful against Guard, much less so against anything else. Don't forget that a full 6 unit fm is 375pts, so you would hope that it would be effective. Most people would take at least 1 firestorm per fm though and they are VERY fragile. Might think about taking 6 unit Falcon fms though, might make them survive a bit longer.

My favourite unit is Guardians+wraithguard - I've never failed to get my points back with them, even as foot sloggers.

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numquam culum es

It's always been my intent that all the core Craftworlds have the "Swords of Vaul" formation; merging the Falcon and Fire Prisms Troupes.  It was "nixed" for the initial "minimal changes", but, I believe, is fine for the "extensive" changes we're making for the full NetEA documents.

In consideration of the Scorpion: In the original rules, it had MW2+, pulse, meaning it was highly likely to get 3 shots, unlike many of the other pulse weapons which started at a 4+.  Perhaps the answer for the Scorpion is to allow it to have 3x shots instead of the current 2x.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

And just a reminder that I'm on vacatin until the middle of November... so I many not always reply promptly.

P.S. To Ginger: Still got that Eldar email you sent me, my apologies for not replying fully to it.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

On the WE, the 1.8 changes were only to the Cobra, just removing Ignore Cover vs infantry targets. The thinking behind this was that it was too powerfull against infantry. Removing IC entirely nerfs the Cobra against its intended WE and Titan targets if they are located in cover (a standard manoeuver), which seems inappropriate. On the whole I would prefer to leave IC in place.

On Scorpions, the change on pulse did result in a nerf, though if they doubled the reduction to two shots is less marked. By contrast changing Pulse improved the power of Falcons and Fireprisms. I would be cautious about making Scorpions 3x shot outright as I suspect this would prove significantly overpowered.

The point about WE is that in general they work better in multiple singles both for redundancy and to magnify the effect. Cobras are probably the hardest to use well, but in multiples they can potentially destroy the largest of titans. The same is true for Scorpions and especially Storm Serpents. As TRC says, Void Spinners are good as singltons.

I have not tried TRCs suggestions for an all WE army, but I suspect it could be very potent. The disrupt from the Void Spinners could well break significant formations, Scorpions will hurt the harder RA targets, and the weakened enemy will permit the Cobras to advance and attack enemy titans.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

3x shots, but with 3+ to-hit? (making it 4's on the typical Eldar Double)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yes I believe so.

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