The Black Guardian Warhost might have to go up a notch or two in points if they winds up being a problem.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

A couple of points in short bat rep.

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums....815;hl=

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I don't know much about them but do Ulthwe get SR5 and a double retain and are their prices more expensive than normal Eldar??? I would hope so. SR5 makes them go first more often than not and retain twice. That's a pretty damn good ability.

All Eldar get the "double retain", it's just that Ulthwé has some more expensive Guardian formations with 1+ init.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

So can you make a 'normal' Eldar Guardian army and just get the benefit of strat 5? (For instance Gavin's Eldar Jet bike army.)

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Seems unfair if they all benefit from SR5 then. Prices shouldn't be the same as other Eldar armies. Why is it Ulthwe get a bonus on costing?

No void spinners  

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Is that all? Hmm, why wouldn't people just take Ulthwe all the time?

& smaller Aspect Hosts. Black guardians have restrictived upgrades & cost more.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

But for a guardians/air/jet bike army its superior?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

You also only get two support formations per Warhost instead of the Biel-Tan three.

And, despite that SR5 advantage, people still seem to play more of the other Craftworlds for what they offer.

I've long been an advocate of a slight, across the board, point increase for Ulthwé, but I've been shouted down every time.  *laugh*

Still, playtest results don't seem to have shown Ulthwé as the "dominator" at all.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Ok cut and paste from the bat rep thread.

Another typo in the NetEA thingy, should they (black Guardians) be listed as 1+ init?
Also Matt said the Seer council was Black Guardian only, but no mention is made of that anywhere in the NetEA list as well.

If you are upping costs I would suggest making the SC 75 points (as its a replace not character) and making the spear of khaine free.

Otherwise I suspect a few of the UK tourney guys that make heavy use of guardians would flock to this list.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Corrected.


The Seer Council has been "replace any Farseer" for as long as I can recall, it has never been "Black Guardians only".


The Seer Council is 100 points because it's more than just a supreme commander, but a large improvement over a standard Farseer.

The Spear of Khaine isn't free as it doesn't always accompany the Avatar to war so the Ulthwé player has to consciously choose to include it.


Well, it *is* supposed to be the "Guardian List", but I haven't seen this "flocking" to it yet.

Again, I've long been a proponent of a slight point increase, but have been shouted down each time as it being an "unnecessary change".

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

my bad, I misread the stat line of the Black Guardians (where it says "alternatively, any fm consisting of farseer, Seer Council and guardians may be transported in...") to mean SC = Black Guardians only. That's cool Didn't realise that the Spear of Khaine is a costed option either  

As for costs, hmm. I haven't really played enough games with them yet, but they do have their + and - compared with Biel Tan. The lack of Void Spinners and the 2 support per host restrictions do change the flavour of the army, but on the other hand the SR5 and Black Guardians do help out somewhat. The benefits of having more 1+ int fms in an activation failing (and rallying) prone army is not to be sniffed at Whether those +s are big enough to outweigh the -s and need a cost increase I don't know.

I obviously need to play more games! I'm free for Vassaling most evenings It's that or more papers on the RTK-RAS-MPK pathway  

_________________
numquam culum es

Gavin found detachments of a couple of windrider formations surrounding a guardian formation in waveserpents to be very nasty with the regular Eldar. Maybe give that a go? Or you could play against the black eldar and see what you think about facing them!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x