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[Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
Markconz
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:24 pm 
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(Charad @ Oct. 03 2007,09:04)
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Ulthw? have autarchs. But I know your point, still you don't need to everytime do jervis wishes/wants etc. Your approach methods aren't the one and only. It is really nice to see what others feel too. :)

For official named lists like Ulthwe it matters and Jervis's approach should be kept. It is why EA is much better than many other systems out there.

People can do whatever thing they want in their own fan lists and scenarios, no-one is stopping you making up your own house-rule list with two types of supreme commander types if you want.

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Charad
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:42 pm 
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Charad, also remember an Autarch is 75 points for a character whereas a Seer Council is an entire unit.

At aproximately 37 points per Aspect stand you are looking at 112 points for a stand with an Autarch on it.


And council is upgrade to a farseer unit, which approx costs 50pts, so that makes 150pts total.

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Charad
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:45 pm 
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It is why EA is much better than many other systems out there.


That is why we all want interesting and balanced lists with appropriate points costs. Yep, EA has good unique advantages over other systems.

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philipc68
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:18 pm 
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Hi Chroma

the typesetting looks beautiful - great work! Couple of minor typos:

- In the Black Guardians box, "have" in the first sentence should be "has". In the second sentence, "has" should be "have".
- In the "may not garrison" box there are several places where spaces are missing.
- Avatar: "once the Avatar has left it may not return" (or he I suppose, if Avatars have a gender)
- Shields of Vaul: cost missing immediately after "Three Eldar Night Spinners for."
- War Walker troupe, EoV troupe: missing full stop :)

Is the 2 troupes vs 3 troupes still open for discussion? I still don't see that that's needed. I realise SR5 is a big boost, but look at all the reductions Ulthwe have copped relative to Biel-Tan:

- Weaker Avatar
- No Void Spinners
- No Aspect hosts
- Only one Aspect troupe per warhost
- Aspects are more expensive per unit (43.5 for Ulthwe vs. 37.5 for Biel-Tan)

Quite often I like to do without titans at all, so a few of my 3000 point lists use 3 hosts and 7 or 8 troupes. It doesn't seem excessive. As another poster pointed out, the extra troupes are tanks, jetbikes, vypers, walkers etc all crewed by Guardians, so (for me at least) there's no reason within the Ulthwe background to restrict them further.

Cheers
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Chroma
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:33 pm 
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(philipc68 @ Oct. 04 2007,13:18)
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Hi Chroma

the typesetting looks beautiful - great work! Couple of minor typos:

Thanks!  I'll clean those up for the next release.

- Shields of Vaul: cost missing immediately after "Three Eldar Night Spinners for."
- War Walker troupe, EoV troupe: missing full stop :)

Hmmm... could you try downloading the pdf again?  I thought I'd replaced the initial one I put up there and corrected it.  Thanks!

Is the 2 troupes vs 3 troupes still open for discussion? I still don't see that that's needed.
I'll be open to discussing this a little later, don't have the time to do it justice at the moment.

Thanks for your interest and input!

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philipc68
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:33 am 
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Shields of Vaul: cost missing immediately after "Three Eldar Night Spinners for."
- War Walker troupe, EoV troupe: missing full stop


Hmmm... could you try downloading the pdf again? ?I thought I'd replaced the initial one I put up there and corrected it. ?Thanks!

I downloaded again, that typo still seems to be there.

Cheers
Phil

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Irondeath
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:23 pm 
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(Charad @ Oct. 03 2007,14:42)
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Charad, also remember an Autarch is 75 points for a character whereas a Seer Council is an entire unit.

At aproximately 37 points per Aspect stand you are looking at 112 points for a stand with an Autarch on it.


And council is upgrade to a farseer unit, which approx costs 50pts, so that makes 150pts total.

Exactly.

75 would be more appropiate.

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Charad
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:19 pm 
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I had a game with last ulthwe list few days ago and I found  another thing changed from previous list. Aspect troupe is now 25pts more, is it a typo too? Troupes are now so limited that if extra cost was intentional, there is not much room for aspects anymore.

Stats for seer council are now good (more stable effect), but still I feel that 100pts is too much for it.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:47 pm 
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How have people found the SR5 with Ulthwe? Has it won you a lot of strategy rolls? Has it contributed to you belting key enemy units before they can do much damage to your units? I've been suspect about SR5 for Eldar for a while. Even with unit reductions etc it smells a bit cheesy to me. What are people's honest opinions?
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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:12 pm 
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I wouldn't say the list became more cheesy for me when I was playing it, I did however play more agressively and placed my forces in higher risk / better supporting positions ready for the next turn knowing that I had a greater chance of winning the initiative for hte next turn.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:27 pm 
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(Dobbsy @ Dec. 03 2007,22:47)
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How have people found the SR5 with Ulthwe? Has it won you a lot of strategy rolls? Has it contributed to you belting key enemy units before they can do much damage to your units? I've been suspect about SR5 for Eldar for a while. Even with unit reductions etc it smells a bit cheesy to me. What are people's honest opinions?

"Cheesy" in what way, Dobbsy?

That word, along with "beardy", can mean so many different things to people; can you expand it further, specifically with regard to SR5?

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tarrisvaal
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:52 pm 
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No problem with the seer council downgrade, though Im a little surprised that the black guardians were made 1 in 3 rather than 1 in 2.... were they that much more useful than normal guardians? I never thought so...

The SR rating has yet to be a problem with any of the games Ive played so far. Certainly none of my opponents has ever complained or considered it out of character.

Also...
I do not wish to beg but...

For the love of all things holy please don't make troupes 2 per host! I nearly finished painting my army!!

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:02 pm 
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(tarrisvaal @ Dec. 04 2007,19:52)
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For the love of all things holy please don't make troupes 2 per host! I nearly finished painting my army!!

I'm still wondering why this change was made and on what mandate?

Who's for and against it?

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:13 pm 
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I find it an interesting restraint that forces a higher propostion of Guardians into my army and don't find it too restrictive. I just wish that I didn't have to pay for my Black Guardians.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Ulthwé] Updated, v3.2
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:53 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Dec. 05 2007,12:13)
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I find it an interesting restraint that forces a higher propostion of Guardians into my army and don't find it too restrictive. I just wish that I didn't have to pay for my Black Guardians.

Well, most of that extra 50 points is going towards the second Farseer... and a little towards the 1+ initiative... I don't think it's that prohibitive.

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