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Reentering a Webway portal
mageboltrat
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:34 pm 
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(Farseer Athe'Iyshan @ Nov. 28 2006,16:16)
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The rules not state I cannot re-enter. So going off stated Eldar Background!

I can have my Eldar units re-enter the webway!!!

No NO NO NO!! I can't start saying what is wrong with this.

The rules don't say I can't jump up and down on the opponents army shouting I am the Uber Titan of DOOM!!! Doesn't mean I can. Grow up.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Although in theme with the Eldar background, it would require a rebalancing effort to make this tactic fully balanced for use with the Swordwind list.

Let's do it then. :D

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:39 pm 
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Obviously, you can house rule it any way you want and by all means play how you like but the RAW (Rules As Written) do not allow you to enter a webway portal.

There is no statement that you can do so and no mechanics described.  Can you enter one with one move and exit another with a second move?  Do you have to reach base contact with all the units in order for them to enter?  How do you handle BMs and rallying if they are off-board in the end phase.

All of those questions would need to be answered.  None of them would be difficult choices based on game mechanics and you've obviously house-ruled it so it works but that's not the point.  None of them are addressed in any way so clearly re-entry into the webway portals was not contemplated in the rules.

I would also have questions in a serious discussion about allowing it.  There are balance issues due to interaction with H&R rules.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:42 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Nov. 28 2006,16:39)
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I would also have questions in a serious discussion about allowing it.  There are balance issues due to interaction with H&R rules.

Yeah the more I look at it the more it would need to be seriously thought about... BM wouldn't be that hard to deal with. simply roll for removal in the end phase like any other formation. H&R is far more worrying. It would allow a formation to assault with no chance of reprisals each turn.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:47 pm 
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I think allowing a formation to assault out of and reatreat into the same gate should be a tactic the eldar should be allowed to try.  However I'm not so sure about allowing them to use multiply gates (ir withdraw into one and assault out of another one).  Since the webway is a bit clutterewd and untidy, Two gates next to each other, on a planet, could be several days march away in the webway.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:24 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Nov. 28 2006,17:47)
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I think allowing a formation to assault out of and reatreat into the same gate should be a tactic the eldar should be allowed to try.  However I'm not so sure about allowing them to use multiply gates (ir withdraw into one and assault out of another one).  Since the webway is a bit clutterewd and untidy, Two gates next to each other, on a planet, could be several days march away in the webway.

And thus the eldar invented the storm serpent and its moving gate!

If this were to be allowed then the eternal air assault with 2 thunderhawks should be allowed too, and we all no how that argument goes  :p

And having faced Tim's Ulthwe and tried the one SS option my gate army always has 2 SS and the fixed gate!
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demigamer
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:11 pm 
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If you happened to have a spare VR hanging about though, theres nothing to say you could not grab a lift.

With a bit of luck and coordination naturally.  :cool:
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:47 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Nov. 28 2006,22:24)
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If this were to be allowed then the eternal air assault with 2 thunderhawks should be allowed too, and we all no how that argument goes  :p

Using 2 Thawks to do that is perfectly legal.  Loaded Thawk assaults, troops consolidate, 2nd Thawk lands and uses its "free" embarkation to load the troops.

It's just usually considered too expensive to bother with because it usually adds ~30% to the point cost of the assaulting force.

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hazpak
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:40 pm 
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hmm forgot to track this topic.. oh well nevermind.

Having caught up i've a question - if a unit exiting the webway fails its activation it has to move out of the webway - or not? can it stay in the webway by taking a faux fire or regroup option instead? I ask as these are options available to the eldar player other than move on a failed activation. But i dont have my eldar book handy to see if its covered.

But back to the issue at hand. I have no problem with the move myself - it certainly has issues that need to be sorted out though eg blast markers (using the air rules here might work and ensures the risk of using the tactic remains high).

I guess the big one for me is how do the eldar embark into the webway again. I would favour the uit having to move into contact with the webway and then being taken off the board as each unit contacts the webway. starting with the units farthest away. if a unit can;t enter the portal the formation doesn't leave the table and may continue to move as normal. I would allow this for normal and double moves, but not march as it doesn't seem right somehow. march has never seemed like an orderly move to me  and i would think that given the dangers in the webway enterly in an orderly fashion would be a must.

Units having left the field in this manner count as destroyed for any victory conditions at the end of the game. This stops players from retreating 'break their spirit' units off the table to save them. By having them retreat and not able to come back the same affect is achieved in my opinon. friendlies see their mates run leaving them behind and enemy troops celebrate the victory of forcing them form the field. This also makes a turn 3 ending for the eldar a very real tactic to try and avoid.

I doubt think there is a problem with entering one portal and exiting another - thats what the webway is for.

If anyone else can think of other issues i'll gladly throw my 2 cents in.

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NOVAGUARD
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:05 pm 
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dosnt it state in the rules that a unit can never leave the table once in play execpt by airborne unit evac? so since a web portal is not a flyer it cannot be used to exit the table?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:19 pm 
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(NOVAGUARD @ Nov. 30 2006,22:05)
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dosnt it state in the rules that a unit can never leave the table once in play execpt by airborne unit evac? so since a web portal is not a flyer it cannot be used to exit the table?

The rules say that a unit cannot leave the board unless specifically allowed to do so by a rule.

That could be a general rule (transport aircraft), an army rule (Necrons phase out) or a scenario rule (breakthrough-style stuff).

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hazpak
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:29 pm 
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(NOVAGUARD @ Nov. 30 2006,22:05)
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dosnt it state in the rules that a unit can never leave the table once in play execpt by airborne unit evac? so since a web portal is not a flyer it cannot be used to exit the table?

In the FAQ it says that a unit can not move off the table unless allowed to by a special rule - in that case air-evac (which i will now read up on)

That the eldar should not have moved back into the webway i dont think is in question anymore - under the current rules they should not have.

What needs to be discussed now is should they be able to by a special rule?

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Farseer Athe'Iyshan
 Post subject: Reentering a Webway portal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:30 pm 
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To solve all problems here's how I would want the Eldar Webway Portal rules to be like!

Webway Portals: Webway portals are used by the Eldar to safely travel through the Warp.

Each webway portal included in the army allows the Eldar player to pick up to three other formations, and keep them back on the Craftworld.

Any formation?s that are kept on the Craftworld may enter play via the Webway Portal, by taking an action that allows them to make a move, and then measuring their first move from the position that a webway portal occupies on the tabletop. Note that the formation may appear through any portal, not just the one that was ?used? to allow the formation to be kept off-board.

Formations on the battlefield, can enter the Webway Portal in a turn if they have not existed through any Webway Portal that turn. Only Broken formations can; See Notes below.

Formations that are on the Craftworld that fail their Initiative in a turn stay on it and do nothing for the remained of the turn. You can try to active the formation in the next turn. Formations that enter a Webway Portal still have any Blast Markers that have while on the battlefield. During the End Phase you can roll to Rally them applying modifiers like normal.

NOTES:- No more than one formation may travel through [exist or enter] each webway portal each turn. So once a Webway Portal has been travel through that turn it cannot be used again until next turn. Broken formations  can re-enter a Webway Portal even if they existed from one this turrn but are counted as Broken while on the Craftworld.




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