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Vespids
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Given that the Tau list is artificially adjusted to give lower Assault values, should we now be introducing more 4+ FF into the list with the Vespids? We already have the Kroot for 4+ CC. I feel the balance of the Tau is starting to falter if Vespids are now included too.
I can also foresee certain cries of "oh but you have good assault values now. you need to adjust your shooting values!"

I would much rather we did not have Vespids if we are pushed to change what already works.

Any thoughts?
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:54 am 
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That is a good point, and the reason why the Vespids are restricted to their own formations and not as upgrades to Tau formations. I would be interested in comments on this.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:07 pm 
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I think having any good FF troops in the list impacts the "non-assault" character of the army.  With good FF available the Tau have the capability to pull off a fire/support/assault combo comparable to any army in the game.  Good FF effectively converts all the good Tau ranged fire to First Strike FF ability.

Generic, good ranged fire Tau formation moves to support range and fires.  Much damage ensues.  FF formation moves in to engage the target.  The modest FF values of the support are more than made up for by the large amount of damage/BMs they put on the target with ranged fire before the assault commenced.

Obviously, that can be balanced in various ways, not least of which is via pricing of the Vespids.  The question is not whether it unbalances them but whether the tool is something that negatively impacts the feel of the army.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:29 pm 
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I'd support FF 4+ for Fire Warriors.

And yeah, there'd be a few price bumps...

but maybe that'd make Fire Warriors actually worth using? :)

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:12 pm 
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BTW ... What was being used for E:A Vespids ?  ???

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Chroma
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:20 pm 
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(Legion 4 @ May 30 2007,16:12)
QUOTE
BTW ... What was being used for E:A Vespids ? ????

Old Eldar Exarchs can be used as an excellent base.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:26 pm 
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Mine are all being used as ... well Exarchs ! :)  However, I'm guessing DRM or E/W may have something in the future !   :alien:

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:42 am 
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The argument for 4+ FF warriors has been bashed already E&C. It's not going to happen because of the adjusted Tau assault values.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:16 pm 
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(Dobbsy @ May 31 2007,03:42)
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The argument for 4+ FF warriors has been bashed already E&C. It's not going to happen because of the adjusted Tau assault values.

Uh huh, and it's that drive that seems to have created an armylist where Fire Warriors are a fully pointless choice.


What about giving Fire Warriors FF4+, but only if the assaulted formation is affected by Marker Lights.

In an Engagement where there are no MarkerLight formations nearby, they'd use their standard FF5+.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:52 pm 
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I don't think that markerlights are going to bonuses to anything else than guided missiles.


Why not?

I think giving +1 to Fire Warriors in Engagements for Markerlighting is actually quite elegant.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Because it's silly?


It's not silly, it's how Markerlights are now used.

In the 3rd edition rulebook & IA:3, Markerlights are mostly used for missile guidance... as of the latest edition they're better...


Plus, it'd make Fire Warriors an attractive choice, but only when tag-teaming with Markerlight formations.


Essentially, I think s'a good idea that could have some merit.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vespids
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Tagging a target for rifle isn't going to work.


It would work if you have a super self-aiming rifle like a Tau Fire Warrior.

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