Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Reducing special rules
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8683		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
I put this in the main response thread but I guess it should have its own thread so any other special rule reductions can be thrown in and the whole thing looked at as one list.

Special rules
So you want to drop some? Follow the Eldars shining example of dropping 2? (And who would have agreed with that when those rules were being divised, well actualy I hope everyone!)

First - the cunning drop!
Make networked drones a character upgrade!
And why not? It essentially is - adds to a unit, gives extra abilities but no stand itself etc. This cuts down the special rules section, puts it in a unit summary for an opponent to easily see and so on.

Second - the 'painless' drop
Robitic sentry. Most people will not seed the table with them. You are unlikely to see more than a 100 points spent on them. And they deserve a special rule? Bite the bullet. Make them 0-1 in the army, formation of 6, teleport, markerlights. Yes its an activation that does nothing (appart from marshal) - see it as a 'tactical pause' enabled by excellent battlefield info they are relalaying. Yes they could take an objective (perhaps they provide that much area denial), so perhaps they would have to cost 100 points, but still they aren't as bad as an Orca at snatching as they have to teleport in.

Third - the 'slight power-up'
Drop Tau Supreme Commander, make him a normal supreme commander and give him co-ord fire as well. Yes it means you have one unit capable of calling a combined assault, but is this really against the fluff? This guy is a supreme commander, veterin of a thousand battles - yes his troops ain't that hot in assaults but he would see the benifit of if you are going to do it, do it right. Plus if your tau get too close together intermingling is worse than anyone else (as the formation being clipped is not that hot defence wise).

Edit - I like Hena's idea of merging it with the co-ord fire rule saying it replaces the commander in supreme commander.

Forth - Questionable
Make the grot ability in the Ork list a eneric 'disposable' special rule in main list of rules. Then apply to drones in Tau list. If you want them to defend vehicles make them LV. Not too much a problem, maybe would need a points drop but I doubt it that much, and if they die they aren't adding blast markers are they?

Rules to add
Orca - stop the Orca popcorn list/taking 9 Orca as standard in 2700 battles.
I think the 1 per Cadre ain't that hot, you can still have a lot to use as bombers and objective captures.
Best solutions I've seen are immediate disengage, can't capture objectives or must start the game loaded.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Good idea on supreme commander.

I think the 'gold standard' to follow in reducing special rules is the pulse example. Yes it was a flavour thing, no it wasn't overpowering, but the new system is just as good, faster, one less rule to remember for an opponent etc. I think the temptation to have special rules is always there to make things more distinct, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I would draw it before the robotic sentries personally - here you have a special rule (robo sentries) to deploy another special rule (markerlights) on a very small scale (6 move 0 lv's). Also 'sentries have a number of dissadvantages and one of the guiding principles behind special rules is that they should not if possible include negatives as that implies a memory burden for the opponent.
Author:  mageboltrat [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
I don't like the drone turrets rules. It's really hard to understand. I've read it twice and it doesn't make much sense. It could be badly worded of course.
Author:  Nerroth [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
I really don't like the idea of giving Tau Shas'Os regular Supreme Commander - or for any Tau character to have Commander at all, frankly. Co-ordinated Fire is a better option for Tau characters to have, and losing Commander should be part of that (as much as a balance issue as a means of making the Tau unique as a list).

(Maybe in the Farsight Enclave - as O'shovah isn't shy of getting choppy - you could see Shas'Os with Commander... but that's it. It would add more flavour to a Farsight list that way, too!)

And I'm not just saying that because the Gue'senshi fill that close-up role better than a regular Tau force would - which in my view is part of the reason why they are useful for the Empire in larger operations - but I disagree that commanders would risk their charges in such a role. It just doesn't seem... right.


Gary
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Thats fine - besides i like the idea of expanding the co-ord fire rule to say it replaces commander in supreme commander as suggested by Hena.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
1- OK by me to make it an upgrade. This would make sense.

2- Not in favour of this - if anything I would prefer a 3 unit formation for 25 points & keep the usual assault rules to keep these simple.

3- I can just hear people screaming/whining for a cost increase for the Tau SC - not too keen on this one. So far it's balanced - there are pros and cons to Co-ord fire.

4- ?Looking at the ork list the grot rule only appears as a line in the data sheet notes for grots. We could do the same for Drones as the wording just needs it to say drone instead of grot...

Notes: Formations that include at least one Tau unit don?t receive Blast markers for Drone units that are killed, and don?t count Drone units that are lost in an assault when working out who has won the combat.

5- So this is a special rule proposal then, TRC? Coz making them "no capture objective" means that you have to change the air rules and Neal Hunt has mentioned the air rules concerning objective capturing won't change because it impacts the marine list. If we dont like my proposal of make them transport, at least one per cadre brings down their numbers somewhat.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Well its still option 1, no probs, option 2, merge with the co-ord fire description, option three people curiously attached to a very little used unit, option 4, fiddle it and put it int he datasheet. So thats 1 gone, 2 hidden and 1 contested. See, already that special rules page is one A4 side! :)

Yes, I do think the Orca needs some sort of special rule. Whether its no capturing objectives or must start the game loaded - either would cut down abuse - the temptation currently for me at 2700 points is a formation of Tigersharks for interceptor/bomber duties (apart from liking the model why go for Barracuda's now?) and 6 Orcas for harassment bombing and objective grabbing. Or just take Neals popcorn list.

Of course it could be in the datafax so no special rule officially required.

Problem with it of course it is a negative rule - and race specific are supposed to only be positive to place the onerus on the controling player remembering as opposed to not forgetting.
Author:  Xisor [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
The solution, mentioned by Moscovian, that we adopted in the DE list was one which could be modified easily for the Tau. We basically wanted to allow for an impressive number of Slavebringers (like Orcas) but without:
- Just making them 'free' and unrestricted (like SM THawks)
- Impinging on the other Aircraft and Support choices

The best way to do this (though Mosc. and the others aren't best pleased with it still, they'd prefer something less...specific...it seems) we found was simply to stipulate a 'one per core formation', essentially making them an upgrade to formations allowed them but they remove other transport options and removing them from the 1/3 restriction on air support.

This worked nicely for the Dark Eldar as they've no 'ground based' flak fire, so really need the option to do both massed-landings and fly CAPs.

Converting for the Tau Orca, the second stipulation could be removed (ie they still count their points from the 1/3 Air Caste budget but are limited by which formations take them).

This could, however, be done in terms of the datafax, without an 'army special rule' as such.

To pose the problem concisely (as a question to see if folks agree it's the problem):

The decision whether to take and deploy an Orca or not should be a transport only problem. It should not be incluenced by an Orca's [added] abilities such as stealing objectives, or being a cheap activation?

That would mean the actual solutions we're after would include:
- Banning it from taking objectives (Datafax)
- Restrict it per formations actually intending to use it (Datafax or otherwise).

Of course, you don't need to adopt any of the DE solution, but it'd certainly add a spot of consistency to the matter given both the DE's and the Tau's preference for air drops in armies that face distinctly different problems from Space Marines... (The main other Drop army)
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Of course the Orca objective grab could be a non-issue once the ERC has made it's decision.  

A thought I had for reducing the special rules is to move one of them; specifically the Support Craft.  It may be too late, but asking Greg Lane to include it in the Core Rules would allow it to be taken off the Tau (and Dark Eldar) list and allow it to be used for developing other lists in the future.
Author:  baronpiero [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Hi,


'Just' Supreme commander

I can see the most experienced warrior of the army have this ability, altough it won't be used very often. Maybe with kroots? Well anything helpful with kroots is a good rule. :)


The networked drones

Having the networked drones a character upgrade would work well.

Still this rule seem a bit artificial in essence. Maybe I lack imagination, but I am not convinced a communication equipment can motivate troops unless there's an actual leader using it to communicate with his troops (much like commander shadowsun and her command-link drone).

Also maybe a more general rule that could also benefit frontline troops like broadsides and firewarriors would be better?


Robotic sentries

I am not a big fan of them as a unit. How about consider them an objective upgrade, like the eldar webgate sort of?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules

(baronpiero @ Mar. 05 2007,21:25)
QUOTE
The networked drones

I'm a bit baffled at the level of fudges for such a minor unit (robitic sentries - but as to your network drones comment..... You mean the list as infatry as well that aren'y armour supporting pathfinders? :)
Author:  baronpiero [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
Hi Chris,

I edited my previous post to answer you more accurately on the networked drones. Sorry my comment wasn't very constructive. It wasn't my best day I think ???
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Reducing special rules
I'll admit I had intended the Networked Drones to be a Character Upgrade.  It's a different version of the IG Vanquisher command tank, just with the Tau twist.  The purpose of the tank is to coordinate mass formations of armor, not necessarily to be the extra-shooty tank as well.

I don't think the Tau Supreme Commander should have Combined Assault, save that for Farsight.

While I like the idea of the Sentry turrets, I just don't know how to word them better... lemme take another whack at them a little later this year, if we've still got issues with them then.

I'm OK with 'attaching' an Orca to another formation to act as an upgrade, and as a limit to prevent the (potential) abuse of them.  Obviously, this depends on what the ERC finally says about flyers objective-grabbing.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/