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Sniper Drone Teams
CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:01 pm 
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The dropping of the Sniper ability from the Path Finder unit has left a gap in the force list, and opened up the possibility of the inclusion of Sniper Drone Teams. It is possible that this will go nowhere and be dropped in time, but I thought that it was worth floating for discussion.

The Sniper Drone Team is assumed to represent only the actual Sniper Drones themselves, with the Fire Warrior spotter hidden away. However, I will probably add a Fire Warrior to a unit of three Drones in actual miniatures for the game. I will eventually attempt to up-gun some Drones to include the Rail Rifle.

I cant see any negative interaction between the Sniper and Disrupt abilities, but if you come up with any, please let me know.

In terms of the force list, the team is an upgrade to infantry formations. At 25 points, they are not cheap, but they are the cheapest spend for an infantry formation (the only other 25 point spend is the Swordfish or Networked Drones for Hammerheads).

As always, feel free to let me know what you think. I feel that this will generate significant discussion.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:34 pm 
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:D  With a move of 30cm, they shouldnt need it! They travel as fast as a Hammerhead. (Standard Drone movement rate.)

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:06 am 
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Off-the-cuff analysis:

Those should have a better save.  Sniper Droneshave a stealth field and long-range weapons.  More than 50% of the time, they're completely immune to return fire (as the opponent can't see them at all, and has a very limited chance to see them at even long small-arms range).

I don't see any immediate problems with disrupt and sniper together, either.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:43 am 
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Should they move at 30cm?

In 40k they are limited by the speed of their controller?

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:01 pm 
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I am open on the save issue. I will take a look at this.

It is assumed that the controller is hidden away somewhere. This is the only way that I can think of doing this that makes any sense (or at least more sense than the controller following them around, getting in the middle of the fighting and slowing the unit down). I assume that the spotter is in a Fire Warrior group, or hidden in a bush somewhere.

One other thing that came to me yesterday (just after uploading!  :glare: ). Although it initially sounds counter-intuitive, probably the Sniper Drones should not get the Tau Drone rule. Sniper Drones are not included to perform the same role ar act as a shield for other troops.

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:53 pm 
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Some thoughts:

As I understand the concept, the spotters are indeed hidden well away from the actual drones - the fact that they have to be within spitting distance of each other on a 40k table shouldn't really be taken into consideration, what are the current ranges of artillery and hand guns in 40k?  This then brings us into line with Epic Artillery which is assumed to have forward spotters, and the like, that are not represented with models.

It sounds like the proposal is to have the sniper drones as an upgrade to infantry formations, so say we have a unit of Firewarriors in Devilfish with an attached sniper drone team.  It's already established that drones can move as fast as transports so they will not need transport space.  The controller is only one man (and his targeter) so it's reasonable to assume that he can pile into the back of one of the Devilfish with the other Warriors - one extra man across an entire Epic unit isn't really an issue.

Regarding the 30cm move.  The stand represents the drones rather than their controller, who we've established is not significant in Epic terms, so they are free to move as drones.  In addition, the movement stats are for units, anyone who has ever tried to get a group of people moving in a coordinated fashion (even those trained to do so) will know that this is much harder than moving on ones own, not to mention that you are limited to the pace of the slowest individual in a group.  Finally, if a sniper drone unit is attached to an infantry formation it must maintain unit coherency with the other infantry units despite having a longer move (similar to the rhino/dreadnought speed issue faced by Marines) so the 30cm move really shouldn't be an issue.

As these drones are small in number and specifically offensive they shouldn't have the drone rule applied to them.  These are more like the controlled drones that are assumed to be built into the stands rather than the formations of additional drones which represent a larger number of self coordinating individuals.

Regarding save, I think LITS makes a good case for a high save.  As these are limited to one per formation and only for Firewarrior Cadres and Pathfinder Contingents then this shouldn't over balance them into a must have for the points.  Similar to network drones, you are effectively buying an ability (in this case sniper and disrupt on one shot) for 25 points.  We just need to be careful we don't over gun them on the statline.

Orde




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:45 am 
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OK, so...

Armour: Increased to 4+ (I dont really want to go much better than this as they are also Infantry and so immune to heavier weapons).

Move: Unchanged.

Rules: Drones rule removed.

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baronpiero
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:04 pm 
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I preferred the initial statline:
- Drone rule like all other drones
- 5+ save like all other drones

No exception. It was simple and efficient.
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:58 am 
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I must admit that I am starting to think that a blanket 'drone' rule makes things easier. I have also been looking at the Heavy Drones and wondering where they stand if the normal drones get the rule and the sniper drones dont.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:29 pm 
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The trouble with having the 'drone' rule applied here is that it automatically makes the drone unit vulnerable to AT fire if there is a vehicle in the unit. It also assumes that the sniper drones will get in the way of incoming fire to protect the Tau troops behind. I am not sure that this accurately represents them.

I will go with armour 4+ and no drone rule for the next revision, and see what playtesting and further comments reveals.

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baronpiero
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Not having the loss of drones affecting the morale of nearby friendly troops is fine for every drone type, though. Even the pricey sniper drones are just pieces of metal.


About the 'drones can take AT' part of the rule, I really could see it removed. I'm just not sure that having drones getting in the way of AT shots is that cool. How can they fight in consistent squadrons and perform an efficient close protection job at the same time?

And this part of the drone rule is less and less needed now that Crisis are infantry and cannot be allocated AT hits.

Broadsides are still LV but they can withstand a lot more.

And I never liked drones having the ability to shield actual tanks. IMO this is a side effect, not the original intent of the rule. So I won't bother about it.


Well, I'd be all for removing the 'drones take AT' thing and streamline drone datasheets by giving all drones the drone rule at this point.
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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Sniper Drone Teams
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:31 pm 
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(baronpiero @ Apr. 13 2007,20:45)
QUOTE
And this part of the drone rule is less and less needed now that Crisis are infantry and cannot be allocated AT hits.

Broadsides are still LV but they can withstand a lot more.

And I never liked drones having the ability to shield actual tanks. IMO this is a side effect, not the original intent of the rule. So I won't bother about it.

That's how I remember it too.  Drones definitely need to shield crisis which is why the AT was added.  

Like you say, Broadsides are less likely to need the cover of drone units, I should imagine that they mainly 'use' the drones already built into the profile.

Orde

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