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Drone question
CyberShadow
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:54 pm 
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A question came up on the SG board regarding Drones. The question boiled down to the drone rule.

The literal interpretation is:

Drones are hit as normal. Two drones ahead of the Hammerheads and two behind results in the front two being hit, then the Hammerheads, then the rear two drones.

An alternative interpretation is:

In the above scenario, all drones are hit first even if they are behind the other units in the formation.

This second interpretation worries me a little since supressed units are taken from the back. If rear drones are hit first no matter what, it invalidates the hits being taken in the opposite direction - which was implimented for specific reasons.

Comments?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:03 pm 
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I figured I was a loser and just didn't understand the rule. :(

Now I feel better knowing others are confused by this.

CS, is the line "and hits must be allocated to them
whenever possible" really necessary?  I understand the fluff behind it (drones are there to absorb hits so losses aren't sustained) but...
Aren't we the Supreme Commanders?  If we want to be stupid and remove a Hammerhead instead of a drone, we should be able to.
I don't think this edit would be a problem because nobody in their right mind would keep a drone over any other unit.  On the rare moment they did, the formation would have to be hit where the drone and the infantry were dead-even lined up in relation to the opposing fire.

The edit would clean things up.

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Tactica
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:48 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 17 2006,10:54)
QUOTE
A question came up on the SG board regarding Drones.

Comments?

CS,

Hmm... ?I'll start with the rule as written in 4.4 for reference;

Formations containing Drones plus at least one non-Drone unit halve the number of additional Blast markers they receive because of destroyed Drone units (rounding fractions down); additionally, Drones in such formations may be allocated any type of hit (AP and AT). Drones may not elect to ignore taking hits, and hits must be allocated to them whenever possible, however Drones which are part of an all-infantry formation may not be targeted by AT fire. Formations consisting entirely of Drones follow the normal rules.


Here's my new proposal, for clarity only, and with changes bold in blue:

+ + +

Formations containing at least one Drone unit and at least one non-Drone unit must halve the number of additional Blast markers the formation receives due to destroyed Drone units (rounding fractions down). Drone units count as Light Vehicles for the purposes of hit allocation if they are part of a formation containing at least one Light Vehicle, Armored Vehicle or War Engine unit. Drone units which are part of an all-infantry formation do not count as Light Vehicles for hit allocation and may not be targeted by AT fire.

Cheers,




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:59 pm 
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How about:

Formations containing at least one Drone unit and at least one non-Drone unit (mixed formations) are treated differently. If at least one of the non-Drone units in the formation is a Light Vehicle, Armoured Vehicle or War Engine, then all Drones in the formation automatically count as Light Vehicles. If all other units in the formation are Infantry, then the Drones remain classified as Infantry.

In addition, the number of blast markers allocated to the formation as a result of destroyed Drone units are halved (rounding down).

Apart from this, targetting and all other rules apply to the formation as normal.


How is that?

Note that this does not allow the Tau player to decide which units are hit/destroyed, since the usual targetting and unit removal rules apply (hits allocated front to back, blast markers supress back to front!).

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Tactica
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:11 pm 
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I think you need to clearly note that the drones only count as LV's while the formation is a mixed formation type.

Currently, it seems ambiguous.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:45 pm 
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Writing it so they change unit types is asking for confusion.  "count as LV" will undoubtedly lead to someone arguing that Drones in a formation with LV/AV have to make terrain checks as an LV and similar confusion.

I think it would be easier and more clear if you wrote it the other way around.  Rather than setting the AP/AT rule then making an exception for all-infantry, make drones vulnerable to AT hits if in a formation with LV or AV.  That way you're making one exception, not an exception to reverse another exception.  Something like:

"If a formation contains both Drones and Light Vehicles or Armored Vehicles, AT hits may be allocated to Drones."

Also, do you need to allocate hits to Drones if they are in a formation with WE?  The WEs would be targetted separately anyway.

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Tactica
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:33 pm 
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NH,

Its a valid question. Its also an absurd reality of the current rules - which all stems from unnecessary abstraction in the first place!!!






CS,

Don't you see? Its all more abstraction to support initial abstraction!

If broadsides were not LV, none of this would be needed.

We are only trying to say that drones can protect broadsides just like they can FW, crisis and stealths.

Drones shouldn't even be protecting vehicles or WE. Its silly. How the hell does a drone get in the way of a HH anyway? Its not supported in core design at all.

As soon as you make the BS an infantry unit (like it is) you don't have to come up with special rules for Orca transporting spaces of crisis INFANTRY vs. BS LV space differences...

You don't have to make drones protect LV or AV at all...

You don't have to have rules for drones acting like LV's at all either - which they are not.

BS don't need special walker rules which make no sense on infantry...

God ... the answer here is so obvious its painful!

+ + +

Its like when your 5 year old tells a lie. Then, they make up another lie to make the first hold up. Then you make up a third to hold up the second...

That's what's going on here, only in rules.

FIX BS as infantry - which is what they are. Then Drones will not need to get all F'd up.

OK - this issue ticks me off everytime.

I have to move on...




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Drone question
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:39 pm 
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OK, we will go with...

Drones are counted as infantry for all purposes. However, if a formation contains both Drones and Light Vehicles or Armored Vehicles, then AT hits are allocated to Drones as per the normal targetting rules (the Tau player may not decide to ignore this allocation).

In addition, the number of blast markers allocated to the formation as a result of destroyed Drone units are halved (rounding down). Blast markers are applied for the detruction of non-Drone units as normal.

Apart from this, targetting and all other rules apply to the formation as normal.

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