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Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:50 am 
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Do Tracer Missiles launched from Spacecraft all have to attack the same target formation, or can they be spread out among several?
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asaura
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:11 am 
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I believe they can be spread out. This is a very powerful ability, according to my experience. It might be better if they couldn't be spread out.
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:11 am 
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I would guess that this would also depend on whether lance orbital bombardments from (for example) a Marine Strike Craft can be used to attack several different formations.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:50 pm 
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The pin point attacks from Space Craft may target multiple targets.  With this said, the Spacecraft are -to my knowledge- the only units capable of splitting their fire.
The orbital salvos I see being VERY powerful if each missle can target a different formation - too powerful.  The problem isn't the damage... Its the BMs.  SIX BMs laid down with one formation in one turn.

I would make it that a Salvo must attack a single formation.  If you want to be able to have spacecraft target multiple formations with the salvo, it be broken down as such:

2 x Hero Gravitic Tracer Salvo.......3xMW6+

This gives the same number of missles (2x3=6) while limiting the number of formations that can be targetted to two.

What think you?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:49 pm 
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I think it's fine if they can target multiple formations: Remember they can only target War Engines or units inside Marker Light range. So most of the time if you're deploying the spacecraft on Turn 1 you're not going to have more then 2-3 (If that) targets to shoot at. I think the 'places tons of blast markers' is unduely over-hyped in the case of Tau starships. Yes you can theoretically place 1 BM on 6 formations... But if you have guys in position to mark all 6 formations to do this chances are that you're either about ready to win t he game, or about to suffer a crushing counter-attack from the enemy as you see a lot of sustained fire/assault moves.
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asaura
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:24 pm 
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In a recent game, I used this thing to place BMs on 5 different formations in early turn 1 without breaking a sweat. Try it, it?s not all that hard.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:44 pm 
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(Ilushia @ Jul. 17 2006,14:49)
QUOTE
I think it's fine if they can target multiple formations: Remember they can only target War Engines or units inside Marker Light range. So most of the time if you're deploying the spacecraft on Turn 1 you're not going to have more then 2-3 (If that) targets to shoot at. I think the 'places tons of blast markers' is unduely over-hyped in the case of Tau starships. Yes you can theoretically place 1 BM on 6 formations... But if you have guys in position to mark all 6 formations to do this chances are that you're either about ready to win t he game, or about to suffer a crushing counter-attack from the enemy as you see a lot of sustained fire/assault moves.

Well, you don't have to activate the spacecraft at the *start* of the turn, even if you do select Turn 1.  That easily gives you enough time to have moved up markerlight units and what-have-you.  

The ability for "zippy" markerlight units to move near broken formations and then allow the Gravitic Tracers to rain down on them could be devastating!

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:36 pm 
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The ability for "zippy" markerlight units to move near broken formations and then allow the Gravitic Tracers to rain down on them could be devastating

No much different than zipping your ML formation in and raining BMs from seeker shots, Chroma. Ok it's MW but we're talking only 1-2 BMs from a single hit. You could smash this "broken formation" by firing a full seeker missile salvo from a Hammerhead formation. Plus, getting markerlight formations into range is an important part of the Tau way of battle. Remember, we don't get Orbital barrage. You can theoretically target multiple formations with those things, placing multiple MW attacks and BMs on multiple formations....

2 x Hero Gravitic Tracer Salvo.......3xMW6
This isn't a bad solution if ppl are going to get their knickers in a twist  :;):

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Thanks, Dobbsy.  I was hoping to come up with a happy medium.  
You can also break it down as a 3x Salvo.... 2xMW6+ if the intention is to have more than 2 formations shot.  It keeps the unit at the same firepower so the edit would be minor.

I was mistaken, btw...Given you an use the pin-points in addition to the salvo, you could conceivably place BMs on EIGHT separate formations  for 200 points, which strikes me as nutty.

Now that might not be a big deal for Ilushia since he normally has only 4 formations anyway  :p  but it comes off as awfully unbalancing to me.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:01 pm 
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Hey! I actually have 6 formations in the army I brought to the tournament... And I'm moving away from that slowly! I'm just trying to avoid doing the 'lots of warhounds' army, mostly because I still think that being able to take a lot of independent warhounds is crazy in the AMTL list... But that's a discussion for somewhere else! I don't think it'd bother me that much more because BMs don't really bother my formations particularly! The worst formations to get that kinda treatment would be my support formations... And at MW 6+? It's just not likely to do enough. So my perception of how powerful this is just probably doesn't line up with the way others do, because I play a force which, by and large, doesn't care about blast markers and can absorb rediculous numbers of them without breaking.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:16 pm 
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So can anyone actually give a ruling on this?  Or is everyone guessing?  

If the official answer is that 6 separate formations can be targeted by one salvo then I woul ask that the rule be reconsidered with the suggestion I made above.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:00 pm 
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As far as I can tell, there is nothing against the rules about splitting your spaceship hits across formations. If this were to be changed then we would need to ask whether other spaceships suffer from the same effects.

If they do, then this may be a candidate for a core rule change. If the Tau are the only ones that this seems to implicate, then it could be handled with a local change, if it is felt that it is out of sympathy with other races.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:23 pm 
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CS,

Spaceships can split fire between their pin points.  This is definitely a legit action.  However, when the core rules were written the highest number of hits any spacecraft could generate was 2 + whatever the Orbital bombardment hit.  

However, now the Hero Cruiser gets placed on the board, fires 6 x MW5+ (assuming they are marked, hence the +1) shots at six different formations, two pin points against two war engines, and it has laid 8 BMs on eight formations for 200 points and one activation and there is NOTHING your opponent can do about it.  That's a bargain even without the damage.

The Salvo IMO should be treated as a single shot, just like a pin point is a single pin point.  I could also see it as 2 x Tracer Salvos, 3xMW6+ per salvo.  That means one Hero Cruiser could attack up to 4 formations, which is still reasonable (half of what it currently can do).

It wouldn't be hard to notate either.  Make a unit note at the bottom of the Hero and the Custodian.

Each tracer salvo may be launched at a separate formation.

Since it is reading 2 x Tracer Salvos, you know you can target 2 separate formations.  Very minor edit, requires ten words  :D and keeps ePilgrim from clinking the Hero BFG mini off my forehead. :cool:

What think you?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:00 am 
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Mosc' - 8 formations only if there are 2 WE on the board (and these hits will most likely be negated by shields/fields on the big WEs). If not you've seriously wasted a chunk of points and you only get to shoot 6 formations with minor results BM-wise. High initiative armies will barely feel the effect of 1-2 BMs on formations- especially Space Marines. Orks will laugh off single hits on big mobs.

I'm definitely happy to go with your 2x3/3x2 idea though for sake of player happiness (if others feel it unfair), but IMO this would increase the number of Blast Markers on single formations which WILL have a greater effect on those formations.
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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Orbital Tracer Missile targets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:20 am 
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Considering that I use Orbital as the wrath of Thor, smiting the biggest threat (Warlords, anyone?), as opposed to spreading damage across multiple formations, that change makes little difference to me.

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