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So, you want a Tau Titan...

 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:46 am 
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A Demiurg Titan. It was quite simple. The basic premiss, for me, was some sort of Demiurg mining vessel[ordnance in BFG, probably the Torpedoes], probably one which usually goes automated.

So, what I thought a bit more.

It'd be-
A War Engine
20cm as it's not the fastest kid on the block
Some nice firepower, but we've got really *heavy* ranged stuff from the Mantas and Morays, so not overboard
Something a bit unique for the Tau, something that the Tau simply can't do
It's Demiurg, so it's configured against folks who'll be inhabiting places they want to get at. Who inhabits most of the Galaxy? Orks. Orks have a bit of everything, including some fairly powerful stuff, so it's quite resilient too!

So, I propose>

Type: War Engine
Speed: 20cm
Armour: 4+
Close Combat: 3+
Firefight: 3+

4* Ion Cannons 60cm AP3+/AT4+/AA6+ Forward Fire Arc
Cutting Beam 15cm MW3+ Titan Killer D6
or [15cm] Small Arms Extra Attack +2 Macro Weapon
or [Base Contact] Assault Weapons Titan Killer D3

Notes:
DC4-6[probably six]
4 Void Shields
And They Shall Know No Fear[I'm proposing those cool Demiurg Magnetic Shield Arrays simulate this effect]
Fearless
Reinforced Armour
Walker
Jump Pack
Planetfall???[Mainly because it's a torpedo...]
Critical Effect: The Cutting Beam is Damaged and is no longer operational. Further critical hits inflict a point of damage.

Or something along those lines...

Now my justifications for why I'm proposing them 'as is', and bearing in mind that they are very much 'not' how the Tau have operated in the past:
 The Tau routinely use Demiurg things for 'things' the Tau are not capable of doing. Holding a fleet line, for instance. Providing extremely good all-round cover in a fleet engagement. They're capable of slugging it out with enemy battleships and cruisers. It's not beyond belief to me that Demiurg *would* deploy things like this, and the Tau would use them to do so. I mean, by the time of the Third Sphere Expansion the Tau may realise that they're doing not too badly with Mantas and Morays and AX-things but that they have an additional and rather copious resource at hand for doing some *very* similar. Of course...the Demiurg!

Now my fluff behind this thing is as follows:
- Demiurg make extensive use of neat ordnance. I propose this is, effectively, one of their torpedoes from BFG. In BFG, they're bog standard torpedoes. Here, I think we've an excellent opportunity to explore without too much 'toe treading'[ie this isn't anything that goes against current fluff]
- Demiurg have to fight Orks a fair bit. Having titans to go up against Roks seems a fair go.
- Everybody loves a titan[sorry, couldn't resist]
- It seems nicely 'Demiurg'. They say only the Eldar were advanced enough to have a 'jump pack' titan, but I think the Demiurg would be the next in line as 'capable'. I think it's cool to have Jet Pack in there as it's simply extravagant. It's characterful, emphasising the ability fo the Demiurg to do cool things with ease, but it's not as if it's on their premier war-machines...Demiurg don't seem to care for war.
- When it's not melting your opponent, it's *very* easy to envisage it gouging up asteroids and planets hacking out all that goodness...

So, what do I think it looks like?

Well, I'm a terrible artist, but I like the idea of a sort of 'archaic' tech aesthetic rather than 'ooh! advanced!' like the Tau, Eldar and Necron tech appears, so it'd be much like the Demiurg vessels. Heavily industrialised and very practical looking. It's there to do a job, looking cool is a side effect. I originally liked the 'tripod' idea, sort of War of the Worlds-esque, or the Tripod Trilogy or something similar, but felt it'd be too dodgy for *me* to attempt and make it look both unique and good. So, my art is one which *isn't* like that, so I took a different direction:




For an understanding of the 'actual' colouring of the thing, it's best to look at where my ideas came from: The Demiurg Stronghold itself-





For it's place in the list? Some sort of cross between an Alien Auxilliary space and an extract from the Kor allotments? Reasoning? Well, the Demiurg are typically appended to the Kor for Auxilliary duties, being primarily a spacefaring race themselves, and also because they're clearly alien auxilliaries.

It's that simple!

Xisor

PS If you don't like my art, for pities sake, do some of your own! I'm deadly serious, if you can make a cooler picture: please do![I'm really not being narky here, I am pleading!]

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:24 am 
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Looks interesting. Now you just need to build one. :D

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:54 am 
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I think the concept of a 'big smashy thing which mines asteroids and fights enemies' is really neat... I'm just questioning on the idea that the Demiurg would build a titan-like machine. Leg-based movement is extremely inefficient in a power->distance sense. You wind up spending vast amounts of energy lifting the legs from the ground and avoiding dropping them too fast... I do like the idea that these things would be huge, monsterous mining machines, though. Perhaps some kinda truly super heavy tank? It just feels more appropriate to the group that's supposed to be building it. I could see a Demiurg super-heavy skimmer which moves quickly across the asteroid using powerful cutting lances and tractor arrays to chop up the rocks and drag them into storage bays. I'm sure some folks will hate this idea... It just feels more 'right' to me when I think about the style of the army.


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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:36 am 
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Heh, I quite agree!

The idea/premiss behind it tries to incorporate it...sortof. It's that these things only need to realistically move very short distances. The 'Jetpack'[may not actually be conventional jets] is ideally used for
1- Moving about in zero g, hence rather effiicient.
2- Lifting off from high G, controlling descent
3- Accelerations

The actual movements it needs to make on ground only used the 'legs' as they allow a degree of articulation not found in tanks. I can see this 'tip-toing' around a crater getting the best possible shot at a massive mine of platinum...

If you catch my drift...

[Note: The actual 'fighting machines' of the Demiurg, the Exterminators as  term them, are generally tracked, with limited 'jet' capabalities where needed 'IMO'. In 40k and Epic terms they're simply infantry, but thematically it's like a cross between the Terminator, a tank, a Dalek/Doctor Who Baddie and some sort of killer-robot...but made by and used by the Demiurg, usually against Orks]

I'm actually rather tempted to start on a model!

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:17 am 
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Quote (Xisor @ 21 May 2006 (03:36))
The idea/premiss behind it tries to incorporate it...sortof. It's that these things only need to realistically move very short distances. The 'Jetpack'[may not actually be conventional jets] is ideally used for
1- Moving about in zero g, hence rather effiicient.
2- Lifting off from high G, controlling descent
3- Accelerations

The actual movements it needs to make on ground only used the 'legs' as they allow a degree of articulation not found in tanks. I can see this 'tip-toing' around a crater getting the best possible shot at a massive mine of platinum...

Most of this I can reasonably agree with. The idea that it only moves short distances makes sense... Although it feels a little odd to me for something which is supposed to be an independent mining vessel fired essentially like a torpedo, it's believable. I personally don't really like the idea of putting it on jets in this way... It doesn't work right with the idea that the vessel moves normally in Zero-G and Low-G environments. Building it as a skimmer with big engines I could see. Gives it reasonable ground movement speed and maneuverability. I can't picture something this big being used to physically launch itself from high-G worlds, really. Not with the way you've got it designed anyway... I could see them dropping it onto a world then deploying some kind of retrieval ship when it's done it's work, though.

On the subject of moving across dangerous ground: Actually treads do a far better job then legs, most of the time. A tredded vehicle has a larger 'footprint' then a walker does, thus less weight over any given part of it's area. This makes it less likely that the vehicle will collapse the ground below it (The 60-ton Abrams for instance only needs a surface which can support roughly 8 pounds per square inch. A human needs one which can support about 1 pound per square inch). This also fits with the skimmer bit. A slow-moving skimmer could float across the terrain, avoiding getting hung up against rocks or collapsing the ground beneath it as it reaches it's destination. I'd suggest making these things really slow, though. 15cm move speed, maybe 20 but I'd rather it stay slow. It keeps with the methodical fighting style of the Demiurg. Slow, steady and nigh-on unstoppable. I like the weapon loadout on yours though.


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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:55 am 
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I'm not sure on the jump pack.  For one, if they're for zero-G maneuvers, they wouldn't be that powerful enough to be useful on the surface.  If they're for blasting off into space, they're not going to be that useful for the more delicate movements that the battlefield requires.  Second, it's a bit close to what the Eldar can do - the Eldar Phantom also has 6DC, has much worse armor, and can only move 5cm faster, and yet the Eldar were evidently unable to give it a jump pack.

I see a Demiurg thing as being very slow but powerful - 15cm, 8-10 DCs, 4+ RA, with no jump pack.  Give it treads and make it a Baneblade on crack.


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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 7:49 am 
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It looks weird - I like it! Hmmmmmmmmmm......

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:31 am 
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Sounds like a lot of people want it to look like a leviathan or something. :D  :p

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:22 pm 
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Is that thing on the bottom supposed to look phallic? ???

Also, how about the Kroot Shapers had their kindred munch on dead Orkeasaursis or 'Nid Bio-Titans and now there are Kroot Titans!  Or captured Imperial titans crewed by Gu'evessa!:p

I'm voting... No.


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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:23 pm 
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I love the concept, no idea on the stats. A war of the worlds style widget which attendant nasty conitations is just what the demiurg need to shred the lovable squat image.

Hows about sending it minus stats to Jervis to see if the studio lke it?

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:54 pm 
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I'm gonna attempt a few more sketches and things and see if I can't bundle it off to Jervis/Andy within the next week or two[also access to a scanner to show my sketched concepts should help a bit!].

I'm gonna try a few 'slightly' more WotW-esque things.

As for my 'No' vote on the tracks:
It's too 'squat'-ish IMO. Though the idea fits, the Demiurg, it seems, have the resources to burn on really making 'tough as diamond' utility 'things' that can go toe to toe with the next race's premier war-'thing'.

Legs- As I said before, they allow a dexterity not available for tracks, and 'skimmer' isn't as visually cool IMO.
Jetpack- I can easily sit with it going down to 15cm with a jetpack. Why? Well I'm very fond of the jetpack idea. It emphasises that this things primary purpose is not jumping about battlefields...but it *can*. The jets give it extra dexterity in a 'skimmery' manner, but the legs allow it to set down and rest when not using full 'jets'. Also, the jets can be applied to the legs as well, meaning they can balance to only 0.5 pounds per square inch, but it'd could, but may not actually, be going all-out with it's engines and such.

As a side not on the 'jets', it could easily be a 'skimmer' effect too, with the big 'main' jets for take-off/set-down and smaller 'anti-grav' skimmer type things to use as quick 'jump' things. The 'jump' effect is so that it only needs to use quick activations/hops to move from one place to another, but once landed, the legs allow it to 'jiggle' and alter position as needed.

As for the cutting beam looking like a phallus... :(8:

I've a few other ideas on how to mount the 'cutting beamers' on the thing. I'm tempted by having two on stubby-stalkes from the sides in place of the jets, but that's for the rest of the sketches.

As I said before: please make your own sketches/attempts if you can, it'd more than slightly aid the creation process!

Cheers,
Xisor

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:19 pm 
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I had another go at the image, largely similar, but with a bit of variation...



And those cool little 'on stalks' things that, IMO, every walker should have if it wants to be cool! ?:p

I may actually try my hand at modelling this once I get more greenstuff and access to my 'bits' again...

Xisor

EDIT: As you can see...I may have got carried away with MS Paint!





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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:24 pm 
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I had someimage in mind as something of a centipede with the cutting-beam at its "mouth" burning its way through asteroids and ore like a giant worm in an giant apple :)

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 Post subject: So, you want a Tau Titan...
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:41 pm 
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Interesting concept, like the Squat super heavies ... I like tracks ...  :;): :;):

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