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[batrep] Tau Vs Nid
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5617		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  thurse [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Hi,

Here is a battle report from this week end between my Tau and ayoras' nids. Please tell me if it is unclear, it's the first one I write there...

We only played 2 turns because one side had clearly lost at this point.
each of us didn't know each army he was going to fight.

3000 points, GT game
-Nid V7.0 ( no modifications )
-Tau V4.4
-All experimental rules
-No dangerous terrain tests for walkers

Nid list
- warrior swarm 1:
? ?- 9 termies
? ?- 4 hormies
? ?- 2 ravener
? ?- 1 hierodule
? ?- 1 zooanthrope
- warrior swarm 2:
? ?- 9 termies
? ?- 4 hormies
? ?- 2 ravener
? ?- 1 hierodule
? ?- 1 zooanthrope
- warrior swarm 3:
? ?- 9 termies
? ?- 4 hormies
? ?- 2 ravener
? ?- 1 hierodule
? ?- 1 zooanthrope
- Lesser Node + 4 exocrines
- Tyrant Swarm :
? ?- 6 carnifex ( half of each type )
? ?- 1 hierodule ?
- 1 lesser node
- 1 lesser node
- 5 lictors
- 1 hierophant


Tau list:
- 6 crisis + 4 heavy drones + supreme commander (BTS)
- 6 Hammerheads + network drones + skyray
- 6 Hammerheads + network drones + skyray + swordfish upgrade
- 6 stingrays
- 6 stealth
- 4 heavy drones
- 4 heavy drones
- 1 scorpionfish
- hero cruiser
- tigershark ( standard, not the one with TK )

Note : right and flank are named according the tau point of view

objectives
Both blitz objectives were put near the table border, in the middle (width-wise). Tau placed one objective on the right flank. All other objective were quite concentrated near the center of the table, but on the left flank.

garrison/reserves
- No Garrison
- Nid kept lictors in reserve
- Tau kept a drone formation in the tigershark

deployment ( yes a picture would have been better :) ) :

carnifexes-Warriors2-Warriors2-exocrines-warriors3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


crisis-drones-hammerheads1-stingray-scorpionfish-hammerheads2-stealth
Author:  thurse [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Turn 1
strategy : Tau wins, nids go first.
-The warrior swarm 3 on the right flank marches towards the objective on the right

-The Drones doubled in cover in the ruins of the left flank, ending on an objective

- warrior swarm 1 on the left marched in cover and ended at 10 cm of the drones

-The hammerheads on the left doubled towards the swarm that just moved ( warrior swarm 1), in order to shoot with their ignore cover weapons. 2 termies died

- Warrior swarm 2 marched in cover just behind warrior swarm 1

-stringray sustained fire on warrior swarm 1, killing the zooanthrope, a ravener, 5 termies, a hormagaunt and 1 nid warrior

-The carnifexes marched straight forward along the table edge, and ended near an objective.

-The other hammerheads moved and shot at warrior swarm 1, killing a ravener and a warrior.

- exocrines shot at hammerhead1 putting 3 BM on them but without a kill

- scorpionfish sustained fire on warrior swarm 1 ( with MW missiles), shooting a hormagaunt and killing the last warrior

- The hierophant marched behind a building in the middle of the battlefield

- The tigeshark shot at the exocrine, doing nothing and left drones between the exocrines and warrior swarm 3.

- The steath marched to redeploy on the left flank, near the ruins

- the crisis doubled towards the carnifexes, ended between 10 and 15 cm from them, shooting 2 carnies.

- The hero cruiser removed 3DC from the hierophant.

Rally phase
-Hammerheads remove all their BM
-Tyrant : spawns 2 carnies 1 hormagaunt
-Swarm 2 : spawns 4 termies and 1 zooanthrope
-Swarm 3 : spawns 2 raveners and 1 termagaunt
-hierophant regenerate 1DC
Author:  thurse [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Turn 2
Teleport : 2 lesser nodes teleported in :  one on the right flank, the other on the left
The remnants of warrior swarm 1 joined warrior swarm 2
Strategy : Tau who go first.

-Hero cruiser shot and kill the hierophant

-Crisis retain init and sustain fire shooting 4 carnies and the tyrant

-exocrines shot at the crisis killing 2 drones and breaking the formation thanks to the disrupt effect ( 7 hits... )

-Tigershark shot at a lesser node, for nothing

-Warrior swarm 2 managed to engage the hammerheads despite having to avoid the drones just in front of them.... Only the skyray survives

- The remnants of the tyrant swarm marched to join warrior swarm 2

-The remaining Hammerhead formation sustained and killed 2 zooanthropes

-A lesser node activate and did nothing...

-The stingray killed 7 termies in swarm 2

-The warrior swarm 3 marched towards the left flank ( still far from it... )

-Stealth sustained and killed  1 warrior from the swarm 2

-A lesser node activated and did nothing...

-Scorpionfish sustained to kill 2 termies

Rally:
-skyray rally
-crisis rally
-each lesser node spawned 2 hormagaunts
-swarm 2 spawned 2 raveners
-swarm 3 spawned 4 termagaunts

turn 3
Tau win the strategy roll

We stopped there as the nid player would probably have lost warrior swarm 2 at the begining of turn 3, leaving him with one swarm, 2 lesser nodes, exocrines and lictors
Author:  thurse [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Conclusions:
- This nid list was not very adapted to the Tau, mainly due to the hierodules, who are great in assault to protect termies and warrior. But when it comes to shooting, you can always ignore them as they are WE. My opponent would have been better suited with more termies and raveners per swarm

- My units were either skimmer or had Tau jump packs. That made them pretty hard to engage in CC

- With the new spawning rules. It was strange to see lesser nodes first activation : they can't do anything! I was also surprised by the AV 4+RA, which I believe is here to compensate a bit the fact that it has to spend a turn alone.

- The hierodules are no more FF platforms, which is good

- Against a mobile army, nids are not easy to play : you have to place several swarm in engage position for the next turn. That means placing formations near units that have already been activated this turn, which is not easy as nid are usually short in activation at the begining.

- Tau heavy gun drones are a nice alternative to pathfinders for markerlight/crossfire purpose, as they are cheaper, have jump packs, and are efficient at shooting after a double.

- The scorpionfish is really useful and fun. The missile choice each turn enables nice options.

- A word on aircrafts, for this game. As the nid have rather close range AA, playing an aircrafts reminded me labyrinth games. My aircraft turned a lot of times in a turn to avoid all zooanthropes, which is a bit weird.  

- and finally a rule question : you have to killed 2 Tau drones to put a blast marker. does this rule have an effect on disrupt hits?
Author:  Chroma [ Tue May 16, 2006 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Quote (thurse @ 16 May 2006 (16:52))
Turn 1
- The hero cruiser removed 3DC from the hierophant.

...

Turn 2
-Hero cruiser shot and kill the hierophant

Not sure if you realize this, but space ships are only used for one turn and then removed, they can't be used over multiple turns.
Author:  ragnarok [ Tue May 16, 2006 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Quote (thurse @ 16 May 2006 (16:53))
- and finally a rule question : you have to killed 2 Tau drones to put a blast marker. does this rule have an effect on disrupt hits?

I would say you would need to hit two to place a BM, since hits on grots and shields don't give BM to disrupt attacks.  But better get a propper rule calling from CS.

Also to echo Chroma's comment, how did the Hero get into a geostationary orbit?
Author:  Ilushia [ Tue May 16, 2006 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Quote (Hena @ 16 May 2006 (18:40))
Interesting. The nid swarms were perhaps a little too small to survive the pounding that one must expect from Tau. I wonder why the carnifex swarm didn't garrison, saves time if the swarm seems to be selected for it. One way to use the hierodules, is to put it sideways in front of the rest of the swarm. WEs block LOS so opponent would have to kill it first.

But interesting to read thurse. Keep 'em coming, mate :D.

Quote (thurse @ 16 May 2006 (16:53))
Also to echo Chroma's comment, how did the Hero get into a geostationary orbit?

Who needs geostationary orbit. The hero must have seen Spaceballs :laugh:.

If you look the Carnifex swarm couldn't have Garrisoned, it had a Heirodule with it, which is a War Engine. So won't fit in under any of the garrison rules. I'd have left the Heirodule off-board at start, myself, and spawned it with the Tyrant most likely. 1d3+4 makes it fairly likely you'll get the 6 you need.
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue May 16, 2006 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
On the drones, I would probably say that they get the full negative effect from Disrupt weapons.

The justification for limited BMs is that the drones are there specifically to interpose themselves between the Tau and harm.  They are regarded as expendable.

But in many cases, the Disrupt ability includes some sort of overwhelming firepower or broad area effect.  In a case like that, the drones' expendable nature wouldn't necessarily protect from the "holy snikey, I'm not sticking my head up for nothing" effect the weapons are supposed to have.

Mechanically speaking, I would also argue there is a difference between negating the BM effect like a void shield and simply reducing its effectiveness like a drone does.
Author:  thurse [ Wed May 17, 2006 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid

Also to echo Chroma's comment, how did the Hero get into a geostationary orbit?

With huge grvific hooks I think:D
Thx for the clarification, I didn't realize that in fact. That' why I've always considered pin point attacks overpowered... This seems much better now!
Author:  ayoras [ Wed May 17, 2006 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Not sure if you realize this, but space ships are only used for one turn and then removed, they can't be used over multiple turns.

0_0!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!! Is it really true? Spacecraft are only "one shot" troop! It changes a lot of thing. I see at least two games we made where, in cause of the activation of the thurse's spacecraft at all turns, I lost. :angry: :angry:

Well, I want to point the fact that my army list was made very quickly and is not very well balanced (well, in my eyes it is a bad list).

Nevertheless, my feelings about this match (even if I did a big mistake sending a big swarm on the left to defend a single strategic point) : WHAT THE HELL nids can do against tau. It is a terrible matchup : I'm too slow to reach assault and he destroy my nids with its incredible firepower (maybe too much sometimes I Find).

The main problem I saw : he destroy 9 models (1 Tyrannid warrior, 2 Ravener, 6 HOR/TERmagaunts) with only ONE activation (its stingrays I remember) although I was under cover (and that is the problem). It is obviously ridiculous I find.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed May 17, 2006 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Yes the Tau do chew up infantry in cover with the right gear. Any comments and observations stick them over in the Tau forum.
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed May 17, 2006 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
Yep.  Spacecraft only get 1 activation per game.

The main problem I saw : he destroy 9 models (1 Tyrannid warrior, 2 Ravener, 6 HOR/TERmagaunts) with only ONE activation (its stingrays I remember)


Why is this a problem?  It's a ~300 point formation firing at its ideal target.  It destroyed ~200 points of units, most of which can be regenerated.

That sounds about right to me.
Author:  ayoras [ Thu May 18, 2006 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  [batrep] Tau Vs Nid
first they destroyed not 200 pts but 350 pts in only one activition (it is already ridiculous), and it is much more painfull than the lost of some common brood model. They destroyed 3 nid warrior, on turn 1 it is just enormous against nid. In several games with the nids, it was the first time I saw a synapse die on the first turn.

But if you find it perfectly normal destroying more than 10 models (I loose my mind yesterday, it was 9 models PLUS 3 nid warriors) in just one fire although these models were protected by a 4+ cover save..... well I can't do anything for you ^^.
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