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Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting

 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:25 pm 
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Hi!

I got two games in this week with the Grenadiers, one against Marines, another against Eldar. I'll go through each battle one at a time, if you are interested...

(CS, the thread title should be 'Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting', oops... Could you fix it, please?)


Gary





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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:28 pm 
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Well, I just missed getting to see one of the games, which is gutting. However, had I stayed to watch it I'd have missed my flight back to Scotland...

How'd they go? I'm up for seeing the results, so let's have it!

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:01 pm 
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I got two games in this week with the Grenadiers, one against Marines, another against Eldar. I'll go through each battle one at a time, if you are interested...


This must be a trick question. When do we not want to hear a battle report?    :/

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Nerroth,

Are you just pulling a "honda" on us?

Trying to see how much batrep feedback you can get - before actually posting anything at all?

LOL ;)

Sure, post away.

Maps, arrors, and pretty pictures always help!

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:36 pm 
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Actually, I was going to give each battle report its own post, but my sister needed use of the computer (plus the gf will be Skyping any minute now - and Demolition Man is on TV!)

I'll get the reports up as soon as I can.


Gary

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:22 pm 
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OK,

The first game was last Monday at a (fairly) new games club, against Graham Bailey (former manager in GW Dublin, who has made a few contributions to SG and the Studio in his time!), a 3000pt game pitting the Grenadiers against Ultramar's blue-armoured overlords - a likely opponent for the Gue'senshi out on the Eastern Fringe! It was my first game against Marines with the Gue'senshi, after many games against Eldar (who I would play against once again on Wednesday)

We used the main rules from E:A, save for the new ER for skimmers - although it didn't make that much impact in this game.

My list comprised of:

1 Regimental HQ (300)
  + Zashi suits + Piranhas + Water Caste Envoy (150+100+50)
= 600

1 Tank Company (650)

1 Grenadier Company (200)
  + Chimerae (100)
= 300

1 Airborne Grenadier Company (200)
  + Valkyries (150)
= 350

1 Vulture Squadron (300)

2 Ion Morays (600)


Graham took a drop-heavy list to the table, with

1 Librarian,
2 Tactical Detachments,
1 Terminator Detachment,
1 Scout Detachment,
1 Assault Detachment,
1 Devastator Detachment,
1 Whirlwind Detachment,
1 Land Raider Detachment,
1 Landing Craft,
1 Thunderhawk Gunship and
1 Strike Cruiser.


My formations all started on the table, while Graham kept the bulk of his formations off-table (the Terminators were to teleport in, while the rest were kept aboard the Thunderhawk and Landing Craft for planetfall from the Strike Cruiser)


I deployed my forces in fairly close formation on the right-hand side of my side of the table (near my home objective), with the Valks and Vultures on the right, the Chimera Grenadiers on the left flank, with the tanks, the HQ and the Morays in the centre.

Graham left his Land Raiders, his Scouts and Whirlwinds on the table, mostly on the opposite table corner to my forces.

He marked down his drop and bomabrdment locations on a piece of paper, and set his CS to appear on turn 2.

Turn 1 - the Calm

Unsurprisingly, Graham won the initiative, so rolled his Land Raiders closer to my position. I had a go at them with my Morays, doing enough to kill a couple of them, breaking the formation.

He moved his Whirlwinds towards the far end of my table edge from my army, so I marched the Chimera Grenadiers close to his position, where (I hoped) to engage the arty tanks before he used them against my infantry.

I advanced the rest of my army, keeping them in the same formation, hoping to be able to support each other in case his Marines had a go at me.

Little did I suspect...

Turn 2 - the Storm

Once again, Graham won the initiative, and promptly dropped his T-hawk, Landing Craft and associated formations 30cm in front of my army - after having placed the Strike Cruiser's bombardment right over where my force had trundled into...

The bombardment took out a few stands, I think it was a couple of Piranhas and one or two of the Zashi stands (a bit fuzzy there)

Of course, the bombardment was a secondary consideration compared to the immense sense of impendng doom at having a large cluster of blue set to assault my army to shreds. At the time, I thought that he had a character with the Commander ability, so was expacting to be jumped by several of his formations at once.

So, I figured that if I was going down, I may as well try out my new Gue'senshi'o in close combat - as well as the Water Caste's 10cm activation ability - while I was at it!

I assaulted his force with the HQ, drawing the Russes and Airborne Grenadiers into the fray. Most of the force got into FF range, while I got the HQ into base-to-base combat (also forgetting that I had only given the Zashi teams 5+ in CC...)

...and you can guess what happened next.

After that d?bacle, I was left with the Chimera-Grenadiers, who had failed to attack the Whirlwinds without first getting bombarded by said formation, losing a few stands in the process.
My return fire didn't do very much to them, either.

The Morays had a go at the Landing Craft, while the Vultures' Hellstrikes tore apart the T-hawk, but it was scant conslation.

His Terminators teleported on and minced my Vultures, for good measure.

We called it at the end of that turn, as it was pretty much over at that point.



Well, I have to say that logically I can't fault either the use of Marines as a drop force, with such effect (though I would have taken a Captain instead of a Commander), as that is part of the essence of how Marines should operate on this scale. That said, I felt pretty crappy afterwards, to be honest. While it has taken a while for me to develop some level of play in the game (for a game which is supposed to be fun, it can be quite unenjoyable) it felt crushing to be so helpless against this. And yes, it was stupid of me to launch the assault, but at the time I thought I had no choice. Had I realised he didn't have a Captain, I would have done things differently, but still...

Sometimes Epic is no fun at all.


Gary

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:29 am 
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Hi Gary,

Ouch a painful lesson from the Adeptus Astartes!

I wouldn't be too down-hearted, the SM drop army can be quite effective when the barrage and planetfalls come down in the right place.  But it won't happen every time.  :)

Just a thought for next time... this time your opponent guessed where your forces would be and dropped on top of them.  You might try to turn that around and if you can guess where he will drop have a few formations go on over-watch with LOF to the drop area.  Vultures would be especially good at this, as would the Tank Company.  Use the cheaper formations in front to shield against assault (but not intermingled).

(A RC Moray on OW would also be a decent threat to teleporting terminators with its TK shots)

Thanks for the report, I await the second batrep (with hopefully some better news!)


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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:39 am 
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I'll go through each battle one at a time, if you are interested...


Nope, Batreps are BOOOORRRIIINNGG!  <----- THIS IS SARCASIM!

Trying to see how much batrep feedback you can get - before actually posting anything at all?


I'm noticing this alot lately.  MS Word, Notepad, erm, whatever passes for a word processor on those Macintosh moon-computers, use that, run a spell check (Unless playing Orks!), copy, past, repeat!

Much better than typing in these little windows.! :p





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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:31 pm 
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Well, if they are so boring, feel free not to read them.


Gary

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:40 pm 
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Gary,

I'm fairly sure Heckler was being sarcastic. ?Meaning that he, like most of us, enjoy reading batreps so much that it is not necessary to ask if you should post them.

Speaking of which I, even if I am alone, would like to read the next batrep.

(If I have mis-represented you Heckler I apologise)






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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:22 pm 
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If I have mis-represented you Honda I apologise)


Oh, but you have. I thoroughly enjoyed the report. It was that Heckler guy (now isn't that fitting) who was sarcastic.

Write on, I say!

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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:43 am 
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Honda, humblest apologies.  I shall amend my comment immediately.


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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:00 am 
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Sorry, I was, indeed, being sarcastic, I dunno why I forgot to [sarcasim] and [/sarcasim]

Thank you for the batrep, Nerroth!


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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:31 am 
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HeckerMD,

Sorry for the misunderstanding.



Everyone (including HMD)


The second game was another 3000pt matchup, between the Grenadiers on one side and Mal Cooney's Eldar force on the other.

My army list composed of:

1 Regimental HQ (300)
+ Piranhas (100)
= 400

1 Mechanised Infantry Company (500)

1 Grenadier Company (200)

1 Tank Company (650)

1 Airborne Grenadier Company (200)
+ Valkyies (150)
= 350

1 Vulture squadron (300)


2 Ion Phalanx Moray Assault Ships (600)


Mal's Eldar army consisted of:


1 Wraithgate,
1 Scorpion,
6 Falcon troupes (each with 1 Firestorm included - he used Eldar Knight model to rep them!),
1 Guardian Warhist with Support Weapon Platforms and Wraithguard,
2 Guardian Warhosts with Support Weapon Platfroms
and
3 regular Guardian Warhosts.


Mal kept a few of his Guardian formations in reserve - to bring them on via Wraithgate later - and I garrsoned the foot-slogging Grenadiers on the objective marker on the far left side of the table.


I kept a reasonably tight deployment of my formations, with the Valkyries and Vultures on the far right, the Morays on the nearby hill, the Regimental HQ close by, the Tank Squadron in the centre of my deployment and the MechInf on the left flank. Mal spread his formations across his full side of the table, with the Scorpion on the side facing the garrisoned Grenadiers.



Turn 1

Mal won the initiative, and used it to get a couple of his formations close to my garrisoned Grenadiers. As we were using the experimental skimmer rules (and using a fair bit of terrain) we had to close the ranges to make use of Scorpion or Vulture fire - and I was content to wait. I moved my formations forward, placing the Regimental HQ behind a small terrain piece, rolled the Tank Company behind a handy large hill (doing the same for the MechInf) and advanced the Valkyries and Vultures at the edge of the terrain piece which contained an objective marker at its opposite end. At this point, I figured that the Vultures would be better as metal shields for the Valks, so I placed them in front of the latter formation - big mistake! (Shoud have realised the AGC cound soak up hits better than the Valks, plus I'd need those Hellstrikes!)

He didn't have too many formations he could hit me with, but he got enough to break the Vultures and take out one or two of my Valkyries, as well as maul the garrisoned Grenadiers on the left flank (I think he got a few with the Scorpion - probably should have gone on Overwatch for the cover save). I got him back a little though, as the Morays obliterated a Falcon formation in the one go!

I figured that the Grenadiers would be toast (wish I had have taken that new Orca of mine!) but I felt more comfortable keeping the bulk of the army in cohesion, else he'd pick off my formations one by one - especially with all of those activations of his.

I failed to rally the remaining Vultures, and cleared up most of the few blast markers I had to worry about.


Turn 2

The video here should work in RealPlayer with the right codec, it's a short clip from my camera phone I took during a quick break in proceedings. It shows the state of play just after the start of the third turn (and show the terrain we used) At this point, the garrisoned Grenadiers were all dead - losing an assault, yet taking a few stands down with them, I might add! (the big dice shows the objective they were defending) He'd also brought a formation or two through the Wraithgate, you should be able to make it out (on a terrain piece in the centre of the table), plus the last Valkyrie was gone too.

Free from interference on the far flank, he marched a Falcon formation behind a terrain piece on the far table edge, while performing hit-and-tun attacks where he could (I Overwatched most of my remaining formations, and again the Morays punished a Falcon formation, wiping it out - they are so useful!) The Tank Company scored a couple of hits, but not that much.

He marched the Scorpion to the other half of the table, planning to make better use of it on Turn 3.

At the turn's end, the Vultures rallied (I think... or maybe they failed, I can't remember! Didn't matter anyway) and we each shrugged off a few BMs here and there.

However, the distances were closing...


Turn 3

This turn, I made a play to contest the closer objective on the right side of the table, as well as to secure my home objective. I marched the now-footslogging Grenadiers back behind the hill at my home objective (now that I think of it, I think the Vultures were still broken, so I wanted to secure the objective). Also, I marched the MIC and the HQ towards the objective, keeping the HQ behind the hill from the Eldar. The Tank Company doubled forwards and shot up the Falcons defending the objective, driving them away. The Morays moved to draw attention away from the deployment, moving towards the formation at the Wraithgate and picking off a few stands.

In return, the Scorpion and Falcon formations whittled down and eventually took out the Morays, and while he made a hit-and-run or two on the rest, he kept his distance, not choosing to try and drive me off in an assault. He disn't get too close to my home objective, either.


So, the Vultures were rallied at the end phase, and we each removed a few BMs.


So, at the turn's end, after a cautious game from each of us, we worked out the scores and he won 1-0. (We thought it was 2-1, but it turns out Defend To Flag is for all three home objectives, not just the one on your table edge!)



Afterword

So, I had expected him to be more aggressive and have a go at my force, so played more defensively, hoping to soak up the asault and dish some damage in kind. Turns out that he had the same idea!

We were both pretty cautious, waiting for the other to make the deciding move. Perhaps the 4th turn would have seen the event, now I had lost my Morays and the Grenadiers were back at the home objective...

(And it occurs to me that keeping those Grenadiers aboard an Orca and dropping them on one of his objectives later in the game would have been more useful than leaving them out to die! Oh well...)

I felt good after the game, though - cat-and-mouse games like this are what fighting with or against Eldar should be all about! I would have kept a fast-moving Aspect warhost in reserve to dislodge a particularly bothersome enemy formation, though.



Gary





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 Post subject: Gue'senshi v7.1 playtesting
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:58 am 
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Hi Gary,

Sounds like it was quite a close game. ?Can you tell us which objective your opponent achieved at the end?

You were heavily out-activated at the beginning, were you able to bring this down as the game went on?

Lots of hit-and-run going on, I'll bet the humans were muttering to themselves about "what some artillery could have done" :D

I've been reviewing the v7.1 list and I would offer a couple of suggestions you may wish to consider.

I would take a Shadowsword. ?The core units lack quality long range shots and the Shadowsword gives a good one. ?Even if you just shoot a falcon it makes a big difference e.g. Shadowsword on OW, 5 Falcons try a hit and run attack, Shadowsword shoots and kills one, so now 4 Falcons left and 2 BMs on the formation. ?So instead of firing 5 AT pulse shots they only shoot 2. ?Its also a nice cheap activation.

Try an air assault brigade of a Kleistian Grenadier Company with a Water Caste Envoy in an Orca. ?350 points for a very good assault unit (8 4+FF, 1 5+FF, 2 6+ FF, 11 units and Inspiring).

You might also want to split up the Morays into separate formations, both for increased activations and also to keep the Tank Company as your BTS.

No flak? ?Did you know you would not be facing any aircraft? ?I note your opponent had plenty of flak, can't really go without it if aircraft are a possibility.
(Opps forgot about the Moray's AA ability. ?So not no flak but very poor flak. ?The Moray's AA weapons both being fixed forward.)

Thanks for the batrep Gary. ?And I downloaded the video clip, I think you have the record for being the first to have your batrep accompanied by a movie. :)






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