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Command Costs http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5489	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Honda [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Tactica said something in another thread that got me to thinking and I was wondering if others could chime in and help with the information pull. The question is, "What are the various costs for command not only from a Tau perspective, but how do ours stack up against other lists?" So, as Tactica pointed out, a Dragonfish costs 300 points, if you marry it up with a Scorpionfish, that's 500 points. Our other options are: a) No command, no cost b) Shas'o, must be added to a Crisis, so that's (working from memory) 350 points c) Shas'el, must be added to a Crisis, so that's 325 points The other list I am familiar with is SM, so: a) No command, no cost b) Chaplain, Librarians, can be added to any type of unit, but the cheapest could be Scout for 200 points, or more effectively an assault unit at 300 points. c) To get a SC, they need to add 50 points to one of the above options. Anyone care to add to this for Eldar, IG, Orks, Tyranids, Chaos (Black Legion)? My reasoning for asking is that I'm curious if our list has built into it any handicaps because our command options are so structured? Once we have the costs laid out, then we might evaluate whether the capabilities are somewhat equal, without trying to genericize our list. Thoughts? Input?

Author:	clausewitz [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Well it varies from list to list... IG its got to be the Reg HQ @ 500 points. Orks get their Warlord for free IIRC. (I think this is the same for all the ork lists but I'm not 100% on that) The Eldar Autarch is 75 points onto an aspect host so min 375. SM SC is +100 points. 'Nids need to take a Dominatrix @ 500 points. Chaos BL get a Lord (leader) included in the cost of a retinue @ 275 points and the Warlord (SC) is free. Chaos L&D get a Arch-heretic (leader) included in a coven @ 200 points and the Demagogue (SC) is free. AMTL require a Warlord Titan with Legate which costs a whopping 950 points at a minimum. So its highly varied from list to list. The Tau SC costs are ok IMO. The Dragonfish+Scorpionfish SC is more expensive, but if you look at the various SCs the cost of the SC formation varies mostly in line with the survivability of the SC. (Except orks, but they have the 3+ initiative downside that nobody else has.)

Author:	Breten [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Actually the nids don't need to take the Dominatrix. ?They can take any of the Synapse Creatures, the cheapest option being 50 points. ?However, you need more than 1 so you'll likely spend around 500 points on Hive Tyrants and Tyranid Warriors. ? Eldar also get the Avatar for free if I recall correctly, in addition to the Autarchs. And don't forget the Etheral @ 75 points.

Author:	clausewitz [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Sorry, I wasn't clear, in order to have a SC, the 'Nids need to take the Dominatrix. I was listing the SC availability.

Author:	Breten [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Ah, I should have picked up on that.

Author:	Breten [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Exactly, and I think that makes them a little difficult to compare to other armies as their army relies on having commanders around. Other armies won't fall apart like the bugs could. I think.

Author:	clausewitz [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:26 am ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Well there has to be a downside to an army that never breaks, ignores BMs and can regenerate lost units. Anyway I think the point can be summarise as.. Orks and Chaos cheap SC. (oh and Siegemasters too) SM, Eldar and Tau moderate cost of SC. 'Nids and IG more expensive SC. AMTL really expensive SC. And the Tau do seem to be in the right category to my mind.

Author:	Tactica [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:50 am ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Honda, Are you only talking about SC? You seem to include more than just SC in your comparisons of the known armies... Our other options are: a) No command, no cost b) Shas'o, must be added to a Crisis, so that's (working from memory) 350 points c) Shas'el, must be added to a Crisis, so that's 325 points The other list I am familiar with is SM, so: a) No command, no cost b) Chaplain, Librarians, can be added to any type of unit, but the cheapest could be Scout for 200 points, or more effectively an assault unit at 300 points. c) To get a SC, they need to add 50 points to one of the above options. Anyone care to add to this for Eldar, IG, Orks, Tyranids, Chaos (Black Legion)?

Note: IG get commissars for free 2d6 commissars are just added to units. They are all 'inspiring' 'leader' models that also add a power weapon attack to the formation... maybe even a slight armor save if memory serves along with invulnerable save... need to go research to be clear. IG also have commanders that come with each infantry regiment for free. Neither of these are SC upgrades, but are formation command models that add to the formations value.

Please clarify the scope of your question. Are we only talking about SC or are we talking about other ability enhancements as well?

Thanks,

Author:	Honda [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Please clarify the scope of your question. Are we only talking about SC or are we talking about other ability enhancements as well?

I think this is a case of, "ya know, when I originally typed this, I meant this..."

So to clarify, I was referring to the SC ability as no one seems to come to the table without it.

I threw in the comments about other commanders just to confuse those who were just skimming the topic, as I knew that those who really could read my mind would easily discern the real question behind the question...yeah, that's what I was doin'...it was a test...yeah, a test, and I was tryin' to see who'd pass see, and...

Anyway, it seems that the Tau are mid-range for SC costs.

The other item I was thinking about is our SC options for a mechanized approach. Basically, SC comes in a crisis suit or the DrF. If you want to take the cheap crisis option, you ?slow down a vehicle formation. OTW take the DrF or the more expensive Crisis cadre+Shas'o.

For some reason, those options "bugged" me yesterday and I was wondering if the other lists that I wasn't familiar with had similar shackles.

Author:	Tactica [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
IG are forced to take mech infantry regiment to get their SC. Orks get him free and he rides in the biggest WE on the field... or joins the biggest mob of infantry if memory serves. Chaos receives a Warlord that joins the basic infantry in one of his legion formations. This cat may be upgraded to a DP for further awe inspiring presence and ferocity. Eldar comes in the form of a Farseer... seems like he can join a unit or man the warlock titan too - but not for sure on that one. Tau SC comes in a crisis... he likes his suit. He may ride in an Orca as a WE transport. The Dragonfish is big enough to let Mr. Heavy Foot trounce around in his crisis without punching big holes in the floor. We've heard rumors of command posts established in much larger vessels such as on Mantas in Taros, but the always being seen nature of such large vessels does make our Shas'o a bit uneasy. What's interesting is every SC in the other armies always has an option to be riding in a (40K term warning) 'dedicated transport' with other infantry in his formation. The Tau SC must take a 100 point orca to have a transport or he must be part of the DrFish. No devilfish for Mr. Shas'o. Honda, I know you like Mech, but this just may be the nature of the beast. On the other hand, you could always take Inf cadre w/DevF + 2 Crisis + Shas'o upgrade + 2 Ion-head. The crisis will move almost as fast as the tanks, and when you deploy all the infantry, the crisis will just be in the mix. I know this doesn't completely address your all mech goals, but its close. There's always the DragF sole unit for 300 points.

Author:	Honda [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Command Costs
Honda, I know you like Mech, but this just may be the nature of the beast.

...yes, I think this just becomes one of those, "deal with it" kind of things. I'll live.

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