Don't think the Gue' should have anything other than Infantry ... and that being said the Gue' and Kroot should be able to ride in Tau transport, IMO ...
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| (Gue'senshi) General Discussion http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5480 |
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| Author: | Nerroth [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Hi! As you know, I have been working on the Gue'senshi list for some time now. I have managed to get the list to what I feel is a pretty good stage of development. These days, I mainly need to watch for modifications to whichever vaulted Tau list is around, to ensure I can edit my list to maintain consistency. Really, the only issue I have at the moment is whether I should introduce the Manta into the list - and modify it to carry drop Valks and Vultures (with retractable tail struts and wings when transported - as Xisor suggested) However, I could be completely wrong with all of this. So, if you have any general - or specific - comments, issues, questions and so forth regarding the list as it currently stands, as well as the implications for modification from the next Vaulted Tau list, or on the Manta issue, please post your thoughts here! (And check out this post, while you're at it!) Gary |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Don't think the Gue' should have anything other than Infantry ... and that being said the Gue' and Kroot should be able to ride in Tau transport, IMO ...
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| Author: | Honda [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Really, the only issue I have at the moment is whether I should introduce the Manta into the list - and modify it to carry drop Valks and Vultures (with retractable tail struts and wings when transported - as Xisor suggested) | |
| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
I think the TAU list should not look like a T&K - IG alliance ... which I'm sure I saw some fluff or something where they allied against the 40K Uni Axis of Evil ( 'Nids, Chaos, Necrons & Orks ). If not; it could be done on any one's gaming table regardless ... So as I said ... the only Humie stuff on my T&K MTO&Es will be Gue' Inf, ie. IG ... BTW I'm working on my T&K MTOEs and they will reflect the SM1 types which we still use for most of our Epic Forces. (We don't like the E:A method and the way we do it works for us !) Will post them in a few weeks ... 
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| Author: | Nerroth [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Hi! Legion 4: Forgive me if I am mistaken in this, but it seems that you have not read the Gue'senshi article yet (it's available in my signature) and because of this, you continue to miss the point that I am not trying to overload additional human units into the Tau list - my human forces are not from the same place that the gue'vesa in the Tau list are from at all... I am not asking for any of my formations to be included in the 3SE list (the Gue'senshi would not have eisted until at least a decade after Kleist's membership of the Tau Empire) - the forces are designed to be operated as their own regiments, and thus s their own army list. In fact the only list I would even suggest allowing Gue'sensi formations to fight in would be a Dal'yth Sept list set after the Third Sphere Expansion - as Dal'yth is the Sept primarily responsible for developng the Kleist system and its new armed forces. So I agree with your statements for the Tau list - but please understand what I am talking about when I say Gue'senshi, not Gue'vesa! Honda: As you have noticed, I have sought to avoid creating the 'best of both worlds' kind of list you refer to (definitely no arty, no HH or Battlesuit formations - I have even removed the Battlesuit upgrades that Tau formations would ordinarily have in the 3SE list...) The issue of the Manta has ben affected by this. On the one hand, the same Kor airforce would provide support to a Kleistian or Garrusite regiment as it would to Hunter Cadres in theatre, as evidenced by the Barracuda, 'Shark, Orca and Moray options in the list. (Which reminds me, I should probably include a note as to what an Orca can carry in this list - or maybe assume it would be fairly obvious...) Some of the Tau support formation options present (the Pathfinders, the T+Ps, Fire Warriors and Stingrays) would generally get around via Manta or Orca, as th ywould when supporting Hunter Cadres. Also, assuming the drop-V+V idea is tken on board, one could picture a hot deployment of Airborne Grenadiers via Orca and Manta, alongside Tau contingents and Kor fire support formations, clearing an LZ for an eventual Courier drop for the Kleistian Infantry, regular Grenadiers and Russ companies. So, if I allow the Manta into the list, its use would implicitly (or I could write it as explicitly, should I keep it for aforementioned hot drops and/or limit it to 0-1 for regular army list selections) restrict the ability of a force to play to its stengths - as one could argue taking a Manta in a 3000pt game does for the Tau list, in both lists you sacrifice many other unit options by bringing the big fishy along! On the other hand, I was originally against the Manta's inclusion, as I saw little place for it in the list as it stood, as probably more needed for Hunter cadre support, and that the reliance on a scattered number of smaller WEs (Baneblades, Narwhals, Morays) was more characterful than simply allowing the Manta to come along. Plus, I felt that perhaps the Manta would be too much of an advantage for the Gue'senshi to take. However, both Marines and Guard can draw from Imperial Navy and Legio Titanicus assets (I see the Kor as acting in both roles for Tau-allied forces in an planetary campaign) without causing major issues. For the Gue'senshi, a regular list choice would be perhaps poorly served by plumping for a Manta in anything smaller than 4-5000 points, as you'd both lose out on taking twin Morays (a great formation choice!) and take too many pointsaway from other formations and their upgrades - something I notice in the Tau list, too. Allowing the Manta would fit the background of the list, and not be too big a deal. Also, I see the possibility of a hot drop-tailored list, with everything deployed via Orca and Manta, with no options taken which cannot be carried by either (Russes, Chimerae, regular Infantry) or get down by themselves (Morays, Baracudas). In order to free up a little space in the Air Caste allocation, switch the Chimera upgrade for the core Grenadier formation for an Orca upgrade. Remove the Narwhal option and count the Moray formation as a Support Company. Any AV or LV formations requiring a Manta would have to be shuttled down turn by turn if there weren't enough Mantas to go around - so the order of formations dropped, and whether you keep the Mantas on-table for fire support, becomes crucial. So, the Drop force can land and hit hard, but has much less staying power than a properly landed Regiment - and has to be much more carefully managed than a regular list does. Sounds pretty appropriate to me! So, in sumary, my Manta proposal: #1 - 0-1 in a regular 'landed' Gue'senshi army. #2 - Work out a 'Hot Drop' list, where you rely on Mantas and Orcas to land Grenadier Companies and pertinent Tau support formations, as well as Kor fire support. (Could be relevant to working out a 'Drop Cadre' iteration of the Tau list, as Xisor suggests) Thoughts? Gary |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
 Sorry ! My Tau language skill is very weak ! I'll shut up ... and get my coat ... 
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Tis interesting. the logisitcs stuff is relevant in terms of what you can run independantly of the Imperium. A lot of gear just keeps on trucking so you'd be getting Tau equivilants for high waer items (like say sniper rifles). But things like chimera will run for millenia. |
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| Author: | Nerroth [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
L4: I wouldn't mind if you hung around, had a read of my work, and let me know your thoughts on the whole thing! Chris: I agree that the need to work out the logistical side of the equation was important for me to try and figure out. Without it, I wouldn't be in a position to determine the kind of operations the Gue'senshi can pull off. Do you think the background fluff seems reasonable? Does the list composition fit well together? Also, I have a first draft of that Drop list: Gue?senshi Orbital Drop Army List: Note: All infantry formations taken must be allocated a transport with the Planetfall ability. Kleistian Gue?senshi Companies (Any number of Companies may be taken) Kleistian Airborne Grenadier Company (200 points) 1 Kleistian Gue?vre unit and 7 Kleistian Grenadier units, may have 4 Valkyrie transport vehicles at +150 points.[/u] Kleistian Grenadier Company (200 points) [i]1 Kleistian Gue?el unit and seven Kleistian Grenadier units, may have 1 Orca Dropship at +100 points. Kleistian Support Companies (Two may be taken per Kleistian Gue?senshi Company) Kleistian Vulture squadron (300 points, 0-1 per Kleistian Airborne Grenadier Company equipped with Valkyries) 4 Vultures. Tau-allied Support Formations (One may be taken per Kleistian Gue?senshi Company) Tau Pathfinder Tetra Contingent (175 points) 6 Tau Pathfinder Tetra Light Skimmers. Upgrades: Tetras, Piranhas, Pathfinders. 0-1 Tau Pathfinder contingent (175 points, 0-1 per Tau Fire Warrior cadre) 4 Tau Pathfinder Teams. May have 2 Devilfish Troop Carriers for free. Upgrades: Pathfinders, Gun Drones, Tetras, Piranhas. Tau Stingray contingent (200 points each, 0-1 per Tau Fire Warrior or Tau Pathfinder Tetra Contingent cadre) 4 Stingray missile gunships. Upgrades: Stingray, Skyray, Piranhas. Kleistian Company Upgrades (Two may be taken per Kleistian Gue?senshi Company, does not include Tau cadres) Kleistian Fire Support Platoon (100 points) 4 Kleistian Fire Support units. Kleistian Markerlight Platoon (50 points) 2 Kleistian Markerlight units. Tau Air Caste formations (Up to 1/3 of the army?s points value may be taken on Air Caste formations) Fighter Squadron (250 points) 3 Tau Barracuda Superiority Fighters. 0-1 Tau Tiger Shark Strike Squadron (150 points each for Twin-linked Ion Cannon variant, 175 points each for Light Railcannon variant) 1 or 2 Tau Tiger Shark Strike Craft. Tau Dropship (100 points) 1 Tau Orca Dropship. 0-1 Tau Assault Ship Squadron (300 points each) 1-2 Tau Moray Assault Ships. Manta Missile Destroyer (850 points) 1 Tau Manta Missile Destroyer. Tau Hero orbital support (150 points) 1 Hero class cruiser, Vash?ya configuration. May additionally add a Hero Gravitic Tracer Salvo for +50 points. Tau Custodian orbital support (300 points) 1 Custodian class battleship. Should I change the Kor allocation to 1/2, to better represent the increased airborne presence in such a force? Should I cut the Stingray upgrades out, since you can only fit 4 tanks in the Manta anyway? Should the Valks and Vultures be able to orbital drop, or depend on a Manta? (I believe that they can't be orbital dropped directly, but I'm not certain on this) Or should I just allow regular Grenadier Companies to take an Orca and simply use the normal list, with either the implicit limitations of units which can't be hot-dropped - or specify which unit types can (or cannot) be so deployed? Gary |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | (Gue'senshi) General Discussion |
Hey No Problem !!! ? Read your stuff ! ? Interesting ! ? I say go for it ! ? So it looks like to me, an former IG/PDF Force with Tau Allies ! ?Works for me ! ?  |
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