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Manta Missile Destroyer http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5466 |
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Author: | Nerroth [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
Well, a Manta, as you know, isn't just seen in Epic. In BFG (a scale in which there are plenty of BIG guns to use when shooting at Mantas - and everything else, for that matter...) 1 Manta can take the place of an entire squadron of other races' bombers - and gets a 4+ invulnerable save to boot! Also, the Manta is a spacecraft - and with the advent of ships such as the Lar'shi and the Qath'fannor, the Tau are fully capable of providing sufficient armour (likely using lighter, yet sturdier materials in construction than the Navy) and shielding (including a deflector which gives the same protection as a Navy ship's armoured prow) to protect their space assets. Given the Manta's crucial role in planetside and space-based operations, I'd imagine that the Fio ensure that it's as well protected a vehicle as they can make it! The Manta should at least be 8 DC, in my view. Gary |
Author: | Tactica [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:52 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
I'm playing in epic with Tyranids. So bear with me if this has been conversed to death here, ok. |
Author: | Tactica [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
Hena, The 'lifting off' concept seems interesting, but why would we do that? I don't know that there's a problem that 'lifting off' would solve. besides, I think there's a problem of allowing someone to remove the BTS victory condition from the field. Cheers, |
Author: | dysartes [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:39 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
Just a quick point, Tactica, but this does mean that the Manta is better off when assaulted by CC specialist units, as they tend to have a poor FF value - whereas, against the Warlord, they'd be able to take full advantage of their abilities. In both cases, a base-to-base unit circumvents the shields of the WE, but I'd say the Manta is still defensively better off in this situation. It's all theory, but I hope you can see what I mean. |
Author: | Tactica [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
D, I understand your point. I agree that its all theory. I would further add that the warlords stats are better so would fair better than the manta in FF. As well, I acknowledge that there are plenty of combat units which are deadly in b-t-b - those specific units would do better against the warlord against the manta, but the warlord would also do better against them than it would if it was fighting them in FF as its stat goes to 3+. I would hope you would also agree that there are plenty units in E:A that are better in FF than they are in cc - and all of these would do better against the manta than they would the warlord. However, this is meerly 1 of 6 points I brought up. Even if someone were to hypothesize that the Manta was somehow equal or better than a warlord in combat against the gambit of units in EA on average - which I would disagree with - the other 5 points still stand. Regardless though, the auther of the thread made a suggestion to a unit based upon a fraction of the description of the unit. I tried to address that. My additional 6 points are meerly speculation on what his actual point may be. Cheers, |
Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
2)The Warlord also has 6 Void Shields.The Manta has a deflector.The warlord can negatethe first 6 hits to it,regardless of what they are.These hits do not generate blast markers.The Mantas deflectors do not afford this luxury.The first 6 hits to a Manta may very well damage it.Even if the deflector was to work against the first 6 hits - each deflected shot will cause a blast marker.Therefore, a manta will break much easier than a Warlord due to a much higher susptability to blast markers. |
Author: | Steele [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:46 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
Does the Manta still recieve BMs if the deflector shield saves any attacks as it is not stated in the tau army list that this is what happens. |
Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
I understand that it would get a BM for coming under fire but Tactica states that the Manta is easily supressed by BMs as it recieves them even if the deflector shield saves an attack. |
Author: | Steele [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:02 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
I think he is referencing to the amount of attacks (6) wich a Warlord can withstand without getting hurt and per Void Shield rule also don?t accumulate BM as they go down. In contrary to the Deflector which is no guarantee of getting no damage, but counts against generating BM?s. Steele |
Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:11 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
In this quote tactica states that even if the Deflector shield saves all 6 attacks it will still recieve 6 BMs |
Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
What I want to know is if the deflector shield saves still causes a BM as it is not stated in the tau list that they do. In tacticas post he states that this could cause the manta to break easily,which would indeed make tacticas argument very vallied but if it is not played that way then it would invalidate one of tacticas arguments. |
Author: | Steele [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:21 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer | ||
So be it this way. Yes , the Manta would recieve 6 BM after 6 Attacks saved or not by the Deflector, without counting any further BM for receiving Damage. Hope , this answers your question. Steele |
Author: | dptdexys [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Manta Missile Destroyer |
Mmmm, So if a Warlord fired at a Manta and got the following :- 6hits from TLD + 2 from GB then another 1 hit causing 2TK damage with the VC. The manta would recieve 10 BMs + 1 for coming under fire even if it saved all the hits via its deflector shield. Also does the deflector shield saves come before or after armour saves,technically it should come before but as it is classed as an invulnerable save it should come after. |
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