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Where is the Whiteshark?
CyberShadow	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:11 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	This one seems to have slipped through the cracks a little, and I wanted to check that I had not dropped the ball (too much). The stats still appear in the latest version of the list but it is not an option in the force selection table. Personally, I like the thing, particularly if FW are still going to go ahead and create a mini for it, but at the same time the Tigershark seems to be moving into the Whitesharks territary and the Tau already have a fair number of aircraft. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Tactica

Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:32 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

CS, Hmm... There's several 'oops' in the 4.3.1 list like this one.  I'd refer you to the list of items I commented about in your 4.3.1 available thread. 6th post down on your Updated Force List, Phase One thread To the point on your question here though, and to cut and paste from the linked thread: 21) You kept the Tiger Shark with variant upgrade - so the "Whiteshark data sheet" is no longer valid. It should be removed from the unit list of Tau air caste units all together. It cannot be selected anymore. So, it didn't slip through the cracks. Its already in there as a Tiger Shark alternative CS ! Forgeworld took the lead on this. They have labled what we used to call a Whiteshark as AX10 by the Imperials, but to the Tau, is all it is is a variant Tiger Shark per Forgeworld's IA3. So now that we have the variant Tiger Shark in the E:A list, the aforelabled 'whiteshark' is no more. That's why it was removed from the now Tau WIP 4.2.6 list. Hope that helps clear the fog, _________________ Rob

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CyberShadow	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:44 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	That is a relief. I thought that I had missed something there. It is as I thought. The issue is in the name, then. Do we continue to call this the Tigershark variant, or simply use the name Whiteshark (which I like). Also, wouldnt it be better to actually split the two aircraft apart and only link them in the force selection table? Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Tactica	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:02 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	CS, Depends, the list is long already. Do you want to make it longer? Since there's a precident in the franchise now of two tigersharks, as forgeworld has already done in IA3, do we want to challenge that? That was the whole reason we merged it into one choice - was to follow the game manufacturer's lead as presented in IA3. Forgeworld is the one producting models. They may produce an AX10 if we include it in our list - as they have an AX10 at 40K scale. If we call ours 'whiteshark' we may never see the tigershark variant AX10 show up. We are also respecting their decision not to go with a whiteshark name in IA3 and sticking with the fluff they created the way it is in the WIP list. In addition, we are minding the precident of the Moray and hammerhead. Its kind of a tradition in the tau list - and why clutter the list with repetative data if you can avoid it? Maybe its easier to just add some fluff around the whiteshark name in the Tigershark if you really want to see that name thrive. Otherwise, I'd say let it go. Converged into one entry - we save space, stick with the fluff Forgeworld has already established and we can continue to use it as is written. Just the KISS and don't fix it if it ain't broke perspective. Your call though, _________________ Rob
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Honda	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	I think we should just leave it as a variant with the same name. We do the same thing with Hammerheads, crisis, etc. Adding names to essentially the same vehicle makes things more complicated than they really need to be. My two yen. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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baronpiero	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:04 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186	I too like the name 'Whiteshark' and wish it could be kept as the unit name for AX10. I would also prefer to see two different datasheets for Whiteshark and Tigershark as a replacement for the current mixed datasheet, which I find messy.
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:37 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	For me, there are two issues here. Firstly, I feel that the two Tigershark variants are different enough to warrant different names, particularly since the rules differ for the two craft and we have special rules which are only applicable to one type, making things a bit messy. That being said, the comments about FW producing an Epic Tigershark are well stated. Perhaps we should create the two entries, and call one the Tigershark and one the Tigershark AX-1-0? Secondly, I must admit that I like the name Whiteshark. And, I have never been a huge fan of the name Narwhal... this deserves another thread, and I remember the long posts about the name of Narwhal, but are people attached to this name and is there mileage in using the name of Whiteshark for the Narwhal (although this has gone through various name changes already!). _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Tactica	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:10 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	CS, AHHH!!!! Did you just propose that we use the IMPERIAL lable of AX-1-0 for our Precious TAU VEHICLE?     That is the Imperial name - they may call it what they will, but all Tau know that its really just a Tigershark with bigger pointy teeth! (which means I just justified the Whiteshark name...) CS - I'm right there with you, I like the whiteshark name myself as a general name. Like you, I'm not big on the Narwhal name. I like Scorpionfish Sooooo much better for that unit. I was not in the majority at the time of the discussion. Besides, with the advent of the Dragonfish - the Scorpionfish just makes sense to me! So I wouldn't change that units name. I'd recommend we encorporate the Whiteshark name into the fluff section of the Tigershark where the AX-1-0 name also resides. That way the Whiteshark name is not lost, and people that have been in the devleopment a long time can continue to reference it. I admit, I always call it a whiteshark in my games... and I always call the Narwhal a scorpionfish in my games. Old habits and all.   Just a thought. BTW: if you for changing the Narwhal name back to Scorpionfish - I got your back on that one! _________________ Rob
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Nerroth	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:19 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	I'd want to call the Whiteshark the Kor'zuro'zame... Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Tactica

Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:36 am

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Here's what I'd propose for the Tiger Shark description. (Note: Two words _Tiger_ and _Shark_ - see forgeworld's lead www.forgeworld.co.uk or in IA3!) I'll put the new changes in blue. The Tiger Shark is not a dedicated bomber, but fulfils the dual role of bomber and drone transport craft. In addition to its on board weapons, its bays can hold a great number of Gun Drones that can be dispersed during flight. This allows the Tau to drop small formations of (relatively expendable) troops in the back of the enemy where they can sow confusion, simulate offensives and generally cause havoc. Even without its Drone cargo, the Tiger Shark is a solid bomber aircraft that can effectively counter ground formations with its twin-linked Ion Cannons, Burst Cannons and Markerlight-guided Seeker and Tracer Missiles, as well as mounting the same Interceptor missiles as Barracudas for self-defence. Sometimes they are the only support for Pathfinders working deep behind enemy lines, increasing their firepower with their Tracers that can be carried to a marked target within a moment?s notice. A more recent variant of the Tiger Shark, jointly developed by the Earth and Air Castes in secret, replaces the drone racks and ion cannons with two light calibur railcannons. These massive weapons, usually mounted on support craft, turn the Tiger Shark into a formidable niche ground attack weapon, capable of engaging and destroying super heavy tanks and Titans. Although code-named AX-1-0 by the Imperium, the Tau know this new variant as the White Shark. Nothing else would need to be done and people could call it Tiger Shark Variant, AX-1-0, or White Shark. We wouldn't be 'offending' anything Forgeworld has done that way either. Thoughts, _________________ Rob

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CyberShadow	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:40 am
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	Quote (Tactica @ 21 Nov. 2005 (23:10)) AHHH!!!! Did you just propose that we use the IMPERIAL lable of AX-1-0 for our Precious TAU VEHICLE? Do you really think that the Tau call their units by Earth fish names? And even if they did, would they pick 'Tetra'?     ALL the names are Imperial designations - that is a theme through-out 40K-based fluff. I must admit that, as much as I like the name Scorpionfish, I can see the logic behind changing it and I dont think that I would like to go back to it right now. I am happy to hint at the Whiteshark name in the background of the AX-1-0, but it seems a bit of a waste of a cool name. I just put the fact that I like the name Whiteshark which doesnt have a unit, together with the fact that I dont like the name Narwhal which does have a unit... although I do also like the name Marlin... _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Nerroth	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:52 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm Posts: 573 Location: Canada	You could put the distinct Tau name in the mentioned paragraph: ...Although code-named AX-1-0 by the Imperium, the Tau know this new variant as the White Shark(Tau: Kor'zuro'zame). Gary _________________ Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdf Human armed forces for the greater good.
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Tactica	Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:19 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	CS and Nerroth, points taken... I'll work that into the WIP list name of the Tiger and you can chew on the presentation there. LMK what you think in that WIP thread when I post the 4.2.7 later tonight. Cheers for the comprimise on Whiteshark name inclusion, I like it. We'll see how it looks in print soon, _________________ Rob
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Honda

Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:56 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Secondly, I must admit that I like the name Whiteshark. And, I have never been a huge fan of the name Narwhal... this deserves another thread, and I remember the long posts about the name of Narwhal, but are people attached to this name and is there mileage in using the name of Whiteshark for the Narwhal (although this has gone through various name changes already!). Sign me up for the Narwhal de-christening party. I too like Scorpionfish, however, if that isn't comfortable (too many syllables), also consider the Stonefish...one of the most poisonous fish in the sea. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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baronpiero

Post subject: Where is the Whiteshark? Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:45 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186

CS I just put the fact that I like the name Whiteshark which doesnt have a unit, together with the fact that I dont like the name Narwhal which does have a unit... CS, names should have their reason to be really good. Take the Hammerhead gunship for example. It has the same 'nose' as a real world hammerhead shark. I am very very keen on the name 'Whiteshark' for the Tigershark variant. - Makes sense as both are sharks - Whiteshark is more dangerous than Tigershark. Makes sense again. I am not attached to 'Narwhal' to the same point. - is a whale (orca variant) - does not have the 'fish' termination. But I must admin that Scorpionfish & Dragonfish could make sense as well. CS although I do also like the name Marlin...

This one sounds extremely bad to my french ears