Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it?  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:46 am |
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Hey all,
Orca is an interesting piece in our list. A superheavy flier that's not very offensive and can transport our troops to get them closer to the enemy and put our weapons in range.
On the other hand, It comes out of the prized aircaste slot and is competing with things like barracuda, tiger shark, moray, manta and space ship.
Bringing our troops up to the front line, or behind enemy lines - allows us to get at that hard to reach stuff and can serve as an artillery role manouvre since we don't have indirect fire and our max range stuff is typically in the vacinity of 75cm or less. On the other hand, the result is our troops are left somewhat stranded on the enmy side of the field. Being closer to the enemy can be a mixed bag of goods.
So, do you use the Orca? Are you busing in troops in on the orca? Are you using it in any other way?
Ultimately do you like the Orca is working - why or why not?
Cheers,
_________________
Rob
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:05 am |
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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No opinion as yet. But I am planning to try them in my next game...
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Honda
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:09 am |
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Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
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Shipping vs. Shooting...it's not a difficult choice. I don't think this unit should count against our air caste choices or should be relatively inexpensive as far as points go.
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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asaura
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:07 am |
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:34 am
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My regular list has two Orcas in it. I have about four transportable formations. The general purpose plan is as follows:
- 2 FW formations on Garrison + OW to protect the deployment against teleports and drops and air assaults
- 1 or even 2 Broadsides
- 0 or 1 Crisis formation
- 0 or 1 more FW formation
On turn 1, the Orcas land and disembark Broadsides. This allows me to use their AT firepower where I most need it. I usually land whatever else is on the other Orca this turn as well. Landings are made late in the turn in safe locations to protect the Orcas.
On turn 2, I use the Orcas to pick up the two garrisoning FW formations.
On turn 3, I land the FWs.
The Orcas are buses.
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Steele
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:37 am |
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Location: Duisburg , Germany
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Well, I don?t use it often, as I have only 1 Model, therefore it?s role is serving as a proxy for the Scorpionfish or the Dragonfish. If I had more , it?s purpose would be very appreciated as fast insertion Unit. The only thing I would like to see is a Deflector on it. Having such technology makes sense on a Vehicle that might be inbound to a Hot Landing Zone.
Steele
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:53 am |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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Air caste units are something that I would like to address, and make sure that each aircraft is more defined in its role. In particular I would like to look more closely at the Orca and the Manta.
Initial ideas (and bear in mind that these are off the top of my head right now) are to remove the Planetfall ability from the Manta and instead allow it a special 'Drone drop' option.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Steele
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:59 am |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 14 Nov. 2005 (10:53)) | Air caste units are something that I would like to address, and make sure that each aircraft is more defined in its role. In particular I would like to look more closely at the Orca and the Manta.
Initial ideas (and bear in mind that these are off the top of my head right now) are to remove the Planetfall ability from the Manta and instead allow it a special 'Drone drop' option. |
Can you be a little more precise ? Drone Drop sounds like the Tigershark ability to deploy the Drones on a fly by base.
Steele
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colonel_sponsz
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:53 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 14 Nov. 2005 (00:46)) | | It comes out of the prized aircaste slot and is competing with things like barracuda, tiger shark, moray, manta and space ship. |
It's more a trasport option than an an ofensive aerospace asset but it is operated by the Air caste. Similar unts are the Thunderhawk (core unt) Nightwing (restricted unt) and Landa (Orc's don't seem to understand restrictions) so the precident is set for whatever we choose.
Bringing our troops up to the front line, or behind enemy lines - allows us to get at that hard to reach stuff and can serve as an artillery role manouvre since we don't have indirect fire and our max range stuff is typically in the vacinity of 75cm or less. |
This does seem to fit a mobile and adaptive way of war which is were people seem to want the Tau to be.
On the other hand, the result is our troops are left somewhat stranded on the enmy side of the field. Being closer to the enemy can be a mixed bag of goods. |
That's a tactical trade-off a commader has to make and is the same for any unit. We can't stop people putting their troops in silly positions.
| Quote (CyberShadow @ 14 Nov. 2005 (10:53)) |
| Initial ideas (and bear in mind that these are off the top of my head right now) are to remove the Planetfall ability from the Manta and instead allow it a special 'Drone drop' option |
My initial thought here is that the Manata is the only thing we have that is capable of planetfalling Devilfish/Hammerheads/Skyrays which would remove the current option we have for a decent planetfall force. Not sure if we need or want this capability but I thougt I'd just mention it.
Orde
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Tactica
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:48 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for all the feedback to this thread.
What I'm hearing/reading is:
1. Shooting over busing
2. Busing is hazardous so defense is required to embrace
3. Busing restricted points are hard to come by
4. There are better things to buy in that space
5. Busing doesn't meet adaptive and mobile modicums
6. Points / ability tweaks may be in order
7. Aircaste is where the piece should remain
Personally, I'm not sure the Orca isn't working exactly as it should from a rules perspective. (Its burst cannons should probably be 30cm long barrelled from a fluff perspective, but a bit of a moot point really). From a utility perspective, dropping troops in strategic positions on the battlefield obviously can have value if you can work that into the battle strategy and avoid being overrun.
Personally, I've not had so much success with it. An army that relies upon moving and shooting to win the game can't afford to leave much off field for any significant time when being approached by an in your face assault or mob army.
I also have to admit that I've only used the Orca a handful of times because I haven't been impressed with the points commitment out of the rather precious 33% of your army Aircaste slot. The vehicle is relatively vulnerable considering its cargo load too in many cases. However, I think the armor/resilence is probably pretty accurately reflected.
I'm with NH on the air caste points issue. This is definitely an aircaste piece in the Tau list. Regardless of where a rock or thunderhawk comes from - for Tau, this definitely should remain in our reserved points IMHO. It fits the background and role and no reason it would come from anywhere else - to me anyway.
I do wonder if the 100 points is too steep of a comitment for the model though. It has 4+ armor, its not reinforced, it has no shield(nor should it from fluff), and can destroy all models on board if it takes two hits... so frankly, for a superheavy transport flier - its fairly fragile - but that is noted in its fluff so theirs no reason for changing that either.
So what would we think about this formation as a 75 point formation (the next incriment down)?
Is that enough?
What do you think about 75 points AND making the Twin-Linked burst cannons into long barrelled versions taking them from 15cm to 30cm?
Thank you,
_________________
Rob
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:24 am |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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Perhaps I should clarify my thoughts a little here.
Yes, the Drone Drop ability is the Tigershark ability.
I am not considering taking away that transport ability of the Manta in any way. The Planetfall ability simply (to me) represents the crafts abbility to drop almost vertically. The Manta would keep its transport, but would need to enter the table as a normal bomber to do so. This is for two reasons, firstly as I can certainly see the Orca dropping right down, but I can only really see the Manta entering atmosphere at a shallower angle. I am not denying the ability of the Manta to conduct missions in space (it is in BFG), just questioning whether it would enter by dropping onto the table.
Secondly, I am a little worried over the balance issues of the Manta being able to transport the entire Tau family, plus pets and the Volvo, right onto objectives without the enemy being able to block or cover entry flight paths.
As I said, this is all just random thoughts right now, and will require more discussion.
I also agree that the Orca should be drawn from the Air Caste pool.
Thanks.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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