Like Dropships !(see the pics, I just posted ! Will use my Orca (SIB!) as Planetfall, Skimmer ... just like we use the T/Hawk ...
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| Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5431 |
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| Author: | Tactica [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Hey all, Orca is an interesting piece in our list. A superheavy flier that's not very offensive and can transport our troops to get them closer to the enemy and put our weapons in range. On the other hand, It comes out of the prized aircaste slot and is competing with things like barracuda, tiger shark, moray, manta and space ship. Bringing our troops up to the front line, or behind enemy lines - allows us to get at that hard to reach stuff and can serve as an artillery role manouvre since we don't have indirect fire and our max range stuff is typically in the vacinity of 75cm or less. On the other hand, the result is our troops are left somewhat stranded on the enmy side of the field. Being closer to the enemy can be a mixed bag of goods. So, do you use the Orca? Are you busing in troops in on the orca? Are you using it in any other way? Ultimately do you like the Orca is working - why or why not? Cheers, |
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| Author: | clausewitz [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
No opinion as yet. But I am planning to try them in my next game... |
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| Author: | Honda [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Shipping vs. Shooting...it's not a difficult choice. I don't think this unit should count against our air caste choices or should be relatively inexpensive as far as points go. |
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| Author: | asaura [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
My regular list has two Orcas in it. I have about four transportable formations. The general purpose plan is as follows: - 2 FW formations on Garrison + OW to protect the deployment against teleports and drops and air assaults - 1 or even 2 Broadsides - 0 or 1 Crisis formation - 0 or 1 more FW formation On turn 1, the Orcas land and disembark Broadsides. This allows me to use their AT firepower where I most need it. I usually land whatever else is on the other Orca this turn as well. Landings are made late in the turn in safe locations to protect the Orcas. On turn 2, I use the Orcas to pick up the two garrisoning FW formations. On turn 3, I land the FWs. The Orcas are buses. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Well, I don?t use it often, as I have only 1 Model, therefore it?s role is serving as a proxy for the Scorpionfish or the Dragonfish. If I had more , it?s purpose would be very appreciated as fast insertion Unit. The only thing I would like to see is a Deflector on it. Having such technology makes sense on a Vehicle that might be inbound to a Hot Landing Zone. Steele |
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| Author: | CyberShadow [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Air caste units are something that I would like to address, and make sure that each aircraft is more defined in its role. In particular I would like to look more closely at the Orca and the Manta. Initial ideas (and bear in mind that these are off the top of my head right now) are to remove the Planetfall ability from the Manta and instead allow it a special 'Drone drop' option. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:59 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? | ||
Can you be a little more precise ? Drone Drop sounds like the Tigershark ability to deploy the Drones on a fly by base. Steele |
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| Author: | colonel_sponsz [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:53 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? | ||
It's more a trasport option than an an ofensive aerospace asset but it is operated by the Air caste. Similar unts are the Thunderhawk (core unt) Nightwing (restricted unt) and Landa (Orc's don't seem to understand restrictions) so the precident is set for whatever we choose. Bringing our troops up to the front line, or behind enemy lines - allows us to get at that hard to reach stuff and can serve as an artillery role manouvre since we don't have indirect fire and our max range stuff is typically in the vacinity of 75cm or less. | |||
| Quote (CyberShadow @ 14 Nov. 2005 (10:53)) |
| Initial ideas (and bear in mind that these are off the top of my head right now) are to remove the Planetfall ability from the Manta and instead allow it a special 'Drone drop' option |
| Author: | Tactica [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:35 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? | ||
CS, I'm all ears... but the Mantas are spacecraft carried and deployed onto the field from larger ships - they engage other space craft even. Seems odd to lose planetfall with them from a fluff perspective. Not to mention a tactics perspective. Its the only piece we have that drop in vehicles with that amount of infantry support. Would be a shame to not have it planetfall IMHO. Considering they carry 4 hh plus every kind of infantry we have, a drone drop option sounds a bit limiting as well. Perhaps you meant an ability like dropping the drones with the tigershark. Cheers, |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
The only air-assault transport in the game which does not come out of the aircraft alotment is the Thawk. The only planetfall formation that doesn't either come out of that alotment or require a spacecraft or both is the Drop Rok in the OGBM list. I don't have any issue with monkeying around with abilities or points, but I think it definitely should come out of those points. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Like Dropships !(see the pics, I just posted ! Will use my Orca (SIB!) as Planetfall, Skimmer ... just like we use the T/Hawk ...
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| Author: | Tactica [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Gentlemen, Thanks for all the feedback to this thread. What I'm hearing/reading is: 1. Shooting over busing 2. Busing is hazardous so defense is required to embrace 3. Busing restricted points are hard to come by 4. There are better things to buy in that space 5. Busing doesn't meet adaptive and mobile modicums 6. Points / ability tweaks may be in order 7. Aircaste is where the piece should remain Personally, I'm not sure the Orca isn't working exactly as it should from a rules perspective. (Its burst cannons should probably be 30cm long barrelled from a fluff perspective, but a bit of a moot point really). From a utility perspective, dropping troops in strategic positions on the battlefield obviously can have value if you can work that into the battle strategy and avoid being overrun. Personally, I've not had so much success with it. An army that relies upon moving and shooting to win the game can't afford to leave much off field for any significant time when being approached by an in your face assault or mob army. I also have to admit that I've only used the Orca a handful of times because I haven't been impressed with the points commitment out of the rather precious 33% of your army Aircaste slot. The vehicle is relatively vulnerable considering its cargo load too in many cases. However, I think the armor/resilence is probably pretty accurately reflected. I'm with NH on the air caste points issue. This is definitely an aircaste piece in the Tau list. Regardless of where a rock or thunderhawk comes from - for Tau, this definitely should remain in our reserved points IMHO. It fits the background and role and no reason it would come from anywhere else - to me anyway. I do wonder if the 100 points is too steep of a comitment for the model though. It has 4+ armor, its not reinforced, it has no shield(nor should it from fluff), and can destroy all models on board if it takes two hits... so frankly, for a superheavy transport flier - its fairly fragile - but that is noted in its fluff so theirs no reason for changing that either. So what would we think about this formation as a 75 point formation (the next incriment down)? Is that enough? What do you think about 75 points AND making the Twin-Linked burst cannons into long barrelled versions taking them from 15cm to 30cm? Thank you, |
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| Author: | CyberShadow [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
Perhaps I should clarify my thoughts a little here. Yes, the Drone Drop ability is the Tigershark ability. I am not considering taking away that transport ability of the Manta in any way. The Planetfall ability simply (to me) represents the crafts abbility to drop almost vertically. The Manta would keep its transport, but would need to enter the table as a normal bomber to do so. This is for two reasons, firstly as I can certainly see the Orca dropping right down, but I can only really see the Manta entering atmosphere at a shallower angle. I am not denying the ability of the Manta to conduct missions in space (it is in BFG), just questioning whether it would enter by dropping onto the table. Secondly, I am a little worried over the balance issues of the Manta being able to transport the entire Tau family, plus pets and the Volvo, right onto objectives without the enemy being able to block or cover entry flight paths. As I said, this is all just random thoughts right now, and will require more discussion. I also agree that the Orca should be drawn from the Air Caste pool. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Tactica [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
CS, The manta is our big titan... please, PLEASE don't make it a flier (bomber!) The weapons would become gimped, and its role as our answer for a major titan would become crippled severely. Giving something with that much firepower full reign of the table in a single move would become broken too. I would highly caution going forward on this. There are really good reasons behind either making it a plain skimmer, or staying with support craft. Cheers, |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
For better or worse ... the Manta is the Tau Titan, regardless. Works for me but I still don't like the Support Craft rating ... I still believe that both the Manta and Orca should be - Planetfall, Skimmer ! I think I could do a lot of damage with those ! 
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