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Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Tactica

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:06 am

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

Human Auxiliaries - are you using them and do they need attention?

What say you on this formation?

Using it or not using it, why or why not?

Worth its points as designed in the list - even if you are not using it, why or why not?

If you are not using it, what would it need to do for you to make use of it?

I had considered a weapon fit for these guys - something called EMP Devices and Weapons - basically a relative close range AT6+ weapon system. If the formation isn't really getting fielded and the feeling is that the points invested isn't returned, I'm also wondering if something like this would be helpful?

Thanks for the comments in advance,

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Rob

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CyberShadow

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:58 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9348
Location: Singapore

I am not sure that short ranged AT fire is the solution here. The question is, why would the 'real' Tau use Human Mercs?

Their niche, as I see it, is their flexibility. They may be not quite as good at ranged fire, but they are much better in cc and ff than the Fire Warriors. Perhaps the way is to make more auxilliary human formations, such as Rough Riders or artillery? But, then again, maybe this would dilute the Tau flavour...

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Chroma

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:50 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Quote (CyberShadow @ 01 Nov. 2005 (13:58))

Their niche, as I see it, is their flexibility. They may be not quite as good at ranged fire, but they are much better in cc and ff than the Fire Warriors. Perhaps the way is to make more auxilliary human formations, such as Rough Riders or artillery? But, then again, maybe this would dilute the Tau flavour...

Again, I think this is open to the possibility of other style Tau lists not necessarily a Third Phase Expansion list. A list with more of a focus on Auxillia, but with Tau leaders or something.

The current list doesn't have to have everything and the kitchen sink as equal options.

As well, I *really* like that fan Gue'vesa list that's floating around!

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nealhunt

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:29 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Ditto what Chroma said.

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Neal

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Legion 4

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:51 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

I like the Gue' concept ... they'll be in my Tau Forces, once I get to work on them more ! GZG's 6mm Krav'ak would make good Kroot Kindred, other Tau Aux. (or even G/S Hybrids or mutated Brood Bros. !) I've got a pack, and other GZG "Humie" troops could be used a Gue' too, IMO ! :;):

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Tactica

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:43 pm

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

Gents,

I agree on the no more human aux than what's in there already.

Nerroth has an interesting list which embraces more Human Aux within its ranks. I like that idea for that list.

Here, in the Third Phase Expansion, there is a limited access to the Human Aux, as has been the case in every iteration of Tau history.

The question is just really how to make the _existing_ alien human formation worthwhile to the Tau WIP v4.2 list and no more value than they should be.

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Rob

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Lion in the Stars

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:53 pm

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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455

While this isn't 40k, I do need to point out that the 40k Gue've'sa do not have the option of heavy weapons at this time, but instead can get a very limited number of pulse rifle/carbines (1 in 3, IIRC). 2 Pulse rifles (roughly what would be in one base of Epic infantry) are roughly equivalent to a Heavy bolter, particularly at close range.

Do the Tau really need a base of infantry with 30cm AP5+, and guard FF and CC? Isn't that really just a much better FW stand?

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Tactica

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:03 pm

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

Lion in the Stars,

Thanks for wieghing in. I agree, they should not have AP5+ across the board... and they don't!

They have AP6+ (inferior Pulse Rifles) today. The Auxiliary Commander character is the only one that has an AP5+ shot.

Also, in 40K they can have 1 Markerlight per unit of 6 models and EMP gernades for all models. That's not really reflected in the E:A version though either.

The question is as they stand in Tau WIPv4.2, how can we make them worthwhile without making them too good or too valuable? *or, is no change required?*

Cheers,

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Rob

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Nerroth

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:00 pm

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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Canada

Hi!

Regarding the nature of the T'au list being worked on - not least with the focus on the 3SE - I think the existing gue'vesa are sufficent to represent colonists from planets with relatively small populations dating from the Lithesh War.

In fact, looking at JimmyGrill's excellent fluff campaign set in the 3SE, the most useful asset the human citizens of the Empire offered was their ability to infiltrate Imperial worlds and win over popular support - either via Zashi commando special-ops teams (who are mor suited to Inquisitor scale than Epic) or through overt diplomacy alongside the astute Por caste.

The Gue'senshi are set at least a decade after the Tau conquest of the Kleist system, and so would naturally not be around for use in a 3SE list! They would be more likely see use alongside a T'au force if two allied commanders were taking the field, as opposed to being in the same army list anyway.

In short, the gue'vesa are ok as is - if you must, hold off on better gue'vesa formations until a Dal'yth variant list is made available (the only Sept likely to fight alongside better-equipped human formations, given Dal'yth's role as the centre of interspecies co-operation in the empire)

Gary

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Lion in the Stars

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:11 pm

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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455

Ugh... been too long since I've looked at/played Epic Tau. Sorry.

EMP grenades are brutal against vehicles, and should be a MW attack. The problem is that EMP 'nades are useless against infantry.

One markerlight per base is ... not necessarily useful, is it?

I'm not convinced that they need to be changed right now.

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Tactica

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:45 pm

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

Lion,

Agreed

- one marker light in a unit at 40K doesn't equate to a unit of marker lights in E:A. They should not have markers at this scale.

- EMP are ugly vs. vehicles in 40k, but wouldn't be ugly to infantry at all - so E:A MW is probably not the best choice should such a weapon go forward in development. It was really just a passing idea, nothing more.

All,

The consensus appears to be no change is necessary for the human auxilia. I'm OK with that for WIPv4.2 as well.

I'll stay tuned on what develops in playtest with this formation.

I know the occasional player uses this formation for the ablative grunt troop line with some AP fire. Perhaps thats their role, plain and simple. That's probably OK. After all, they are relatively cheap for the amount of units in the formation.

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Rob

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Honda

Post subject: Alien Auxiliaries - Human Auxilia - Thoughts?

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:08 am

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I'd agree, leave as is. We're already fiddling with the Kroot.

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Honda

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