YES! I like this additional. Even just for the fact that if I buy 2 packs of 3xHH w/missile pods to represent them I could use the left over 2x
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| Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5396 |
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| Author: | Tactica [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Tau Upgrades Add: Stingrays - add 2 Stingrays = +100 points (never made since why this option wasn't there in the first place) Would be made available to hammerhead body formations and all cadres. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
YES! I like this additional. Even just for the fact that if I buy 2 packs of 3xHH w/missile pods to represent them I could use the left over 2x
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| Author: | asaura [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Overall, the concept is probably good. Not having a Stingray upgrade is probably just an oversight. Two minor nitpicks: 1) The cost is pretty low. Note that the 4.2 beta list has 4 Stingrays at 250. 2) This may lead to too big HH formations. 4+2 HHs, 2 Stingrays and a Skyray = 9 vehicles. This might be too big. (I don't see why that would be, just playing devil's advocate) |
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| Author: | Dobbsy [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Although, if it's decided to have the Armoured mech force (from Tactica's other thread) this could go some ways to creating that without having to specifically make a new Cadre.... Just thinking out loud. I'd agree on upping the points to 250 though. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:54 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
Why too Big? Remember that the IG has also the Armored Company with 10 Tanks. And if I remeber correct, those Russes have RA. Which our HH don?t. Cheers! Steele |
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| Author: | asaura [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:24 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
You posted the exact reason. Big armored formations are an IG specialty (also Orks...). We don't want the Tau to be hi-tech IG, but something else entirely. |
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| Author: | clausewitz [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Yes but the Tau are not the IG, and do not do things as the IG would do. Large companies are a feature of the IG, whether its infantry, mechanised infantry, tanks or artillery. "The Hammer of the Emperor", the IG are meant to be sledgehammer style, brute force over finesse. The Tau are practically the opposite, precision and maneuver over brute force. I think creating IG style formations will detract from the character of the Tau army. I also believe the Tau should avoid Ork like formations where you have upgrades that give you a bit of everything. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:46 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
Ok, what do you gain in beeing High-tech when your first losses mean that your formation is broken and not able to Backfire? For me it works as it is as long as i don?t face Orks. Try to Break a huge Warband and you know what I mean! And my Ork player field 2 to 3 of them comprising "only" from 20 to 30 Models, lacking more of them. Cheers! Steele |
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| Author: | clausewitz [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Break Uge warbands using co-ordinated fire with disrupt armed Tau units. Example: FW Cadre with attached Pathfinders and Heavy Drones, combined with a XV15 contingent with the 3 extra XV15s. Position them after the warband has moved for a next turn sustained fire. The average is just under 7 AP hits and just under 17 disrupt hits! That will kill about 20 units and place about 20 blast markers, enough to break almost any warband. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:31 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
Yes , that will work. With Infantry formations. But you have to get close, really close. And if you roll bad... let?s pack and take the ticket home. The Orks would , if not broken, engage you ASAP. But again you are talking about CF. Sure, it?s a very good tool, but against a good opponent it?s difficult to set up, most of mine see it coming and redeploy accordingly. Nevertheless I thought we were talking about Armoured formations? An HH Contingent can comprise a maximum of 7 Models - 5 HH , 1 Swordfish and 1 Skyray - I can?t see the real problem upping them 2 more Vehicles. Steele |
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| Author: | clausewitz [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
I was answering your question on how to deal with Uge Warbands. Clearly Hammerheads are not the unit to do that, so I mentioned those I thought appropriate to the task. I really dont see why you think co-ordinated fire is so difficult to pull off, there hasn't been any thing like the same amount of discussion about combined assaults being tough to pull off, and IMO co-ordinated fire is easier (more units with the ability and no requirement to get quite so close). Concerning the Hammerhead contingent. Currently a Hammerhead contingent can have: Base: 4 Hammerheads Extra: 2 Hammerheads, 1 Skyray, 4 Piranahas (+ replacement Swordfish) So if you want a larger Hammerhead contingent you can have one (11 units). I believe that the Tau would prefer the slightly smaller more flexible contingents of armour (like SM or Eldar armour) than the mass approach of IG or Orks. Therefore I dont think an armoured cadre is a good idea. Or if you really want a large formation you can have rather large Mech. formations. Such as the FW Cadre with 12 FW, 6 Devilfish, 4 Drones and 4 Piranhas (26 units). PS regarding Ork assaults, if your frontline formations are covered by marker lights, try putting a Stingray contingent on Over-Watch. The MLs mean you do not need LOS and the AP5+ IC shots will help swing the odds in your favour (via kills and blast marker mods). |
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| Author: | Tactica [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Asura, I agree with 250 for 4 stingrays change. I agree, Stingray upgrade should be 125 for +2. thanks for catching that. |
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| Author: | Steele [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:54 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
Thanks , I missed the Piranhas. Mainly cause I take them as a separate Force along with Tetras. Regarding CF: Indeed it is not difficult to set it up, but you must have the enemy (a useful one, IMHO) in Range and not able to disappear (by moving away) as soon as my opponent realizes what is going to happen. But unfortunately it happens all to often. So speaking, still in search for the right tactics. Maybe Jaldons way of the Tau? Cheers! Steele |
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| Author: | Tactica [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray |
Cw, Not trying to get into your guys side converstion, but just a question. When you said, Concerning the Hammerhead contingent. Currently a Hammerhead contingent can have: Base: 4 Hammerheads Extra: 2 Hammerheads, 1 Skyray, 4 Piranahas (+ replacement Swordfish) | |
| Author: | Steele [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:13 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Tau Upgrade Concept - Stingray | ||
You did mean that the replacement swordfish is an alternate option for one of the upgrades you already mentioned right - replacing with a Swordfish is one of the three upgrades you get. So if you wanted that one, you wouldn't have one of the other three upgrades you already mentioned. That is what you meant by the quoted statement - correct? Thanks, | |||
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