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Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
Tactica
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:36 am 
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Of all of my postings in the past few minutes about new concepts, this one is the nearest and dearest to me.

In reading FW:IA3:TC, I came across a term at the bottom of the Skyray fluff that I found interesting. From memory, Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre.

So that got me thinking about something I've mentioned in passing in the past but never fully explored due to other pressing issues.

Tau require the Cadre before Contingents in a similar to IG fashion.

Tau enthusiests in 40K have a big Mech-Tau following (though I tend to be what's referred to as more of a Hybrid player myself). I noticed that Mech Tau Cadres are really only represented through the Cadre sections in the form of DF equiped FWs.

Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre
I'd like to explore an Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre as another core choice for the list. This would be a hammerhead formation at a base size of 8 Hammerheads + either 1 Swordfish or 1 Stingray as a lead tank. The formation's points would be 575.

The same upgrades as the FW cadre. (think tank company in IG, but not as big of a base formation).

Thoughts?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:49 am 
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I absolutely love! the idea Tactica, but I don't want to have to wait for everyone to play test it and slow down the production of the official list :D
I'm eager to get to grips with an official list and am pretty happy (almost) with what's available already. I think the discussions regarding changes in play right now are enough for me.
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Steele
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:04 am 
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Quote (Tactica @ 28 Oct. 2005 (01:36))
Of all of my postings in the past few minutes about new concepts, this one is the nearest and dearest to me.

In reading FW:IA3:TC, I came across a term at the bottom of the Skyray fluff that I found interesting. From memory, Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre.

So that got me thinking about something I've mentioned in passing in the past but never fully explored due to other pressing issues.

Tau require the Cadre before Contingents in a similar to IG fashion.

Tau enthusiests in 40K have a big Mech-Tau following (though I tend to be what's referred to as more of a Hybrid player myself). I noticed that Mech Tau Cadres are really only represented through the Cadre sections in the form of DF equiped FWs.

Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre
I'd like to explore an Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre as another core choice for the list. This would be a hammerhead formation at a base size of 8 Hammerheads + either 1 Swordfish or 1 Stingray as a lead tank. The formation's points would be 575.

The same upgrades as the FW cadre. (think tank company in IG, but not as big of a base formation).

Thoughts?

Yes, please!!!! We would finally have one Core Cadre of each Basic Unit Type ( INF/LV/AV). So please , you have my GO for it.
cheers!
Steele

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Honda
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:52 pm 
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I too would support this addition. However, given some of the comments associated with the Swordfish contingent regarding size, you might consider dropping the starting size to 6 and consider only allowing "mech" related contingents and upgrades to be added (i.e. no jet pack infantry or walkers).

That way if you wanted to build a big tank force you could get 6 x HH, + 2 HH, + 1 Swordfish or + 1 Skyray. I'm leaving out the Stingray contingent for the moment as I'd like to think a little more about some of the comments regarding homogenizing Tau formations ala Orks.

However, I'm glad you brought this up as I think it is an obvious omission and a natural addition.

Great idea!

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Tactica
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:26 pm 
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Honda,

All of your points noted and will be observed. Starting 6 makes sense to me for the reasons you've sited. Limited upgrades as the point is for this to be an armored mech cadre, so limited upgrades (no suits etc) makes sense.

Will make note of it.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:10 pm 
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Just a quick thought.. if you can access your FW (inf), Battlesuits AND tanks via cadres will that not make even more contingents available.  At the moment you need to take FW/BS cadres to get your HHs.  Don't know if this would make much difference, but its another small piece of added flexibility.  I know flexibility sounds good, but as has been often mentioned, it is the restrictions and limitations that often define the character of an army (give SMs LRu companies and SHTs and they would be a great army, but very boring).
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Chroma
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:24 pm 
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Would it be possible/better to allow the mech cadre option in a different Tau armylist than the Third Phase Expansion?  

While Eldar, Marines, Orks, and even Guard all have "variant" lists going, no one seems to be considering this for the Tau.  Each list doesn't have to be the whole kettle of fish or allow for all the formations/organizations a race/army fields.  I'd highly recommend at looking at this as the opportunity to do a specific Sept focus list or something along those lines.

Just my two c'ents.

P.S. I love tanks!

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:27 pm 
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I don't know enough Tau background to comment knowledgably on that, but it seems like a very good idea.  Also a good way of accomodating all the ideas people wish to see, without creating one army list with every trick in the book.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:30 pm 
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As much as I like the idea (I'm an old Mech War Horse !) ... I'll have to agree with Clauswitz on this ... IMO ... the Tau ain't IG or SM ! :;):   But do what works for you all ! :D

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:44 pm 
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Well, a mech cadre would certainly make a legal army monetarily cheaper...


I'm a bit hesitant about a massive armor formation version of the Tau for the reasons mentioned in the other threads comparing them to IG and Orks.

It seems sort of against the Tau military philosophy of "stalk/decisive strike" to have a big armor formation lumbering around the board.  They don't mass firepower in one place and roll forward.  They prefer precise coordination to deliver a swift killing blow, not an attrition-oriented force.

I also tend to think of Tau formations as mid-sized.  IG, Cultists and Orks are hordes.  Eldar and SM are elite forces.  Chaos Marines and Tau are supposed to split the difference - good quality and moderate size.  A potentially 11-unit armor formation (8+2+1) is darn big.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:48 pm 
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Would it be possible/better to allow the mech cadre option in a different Tau armylist than the Third Phase Expansion?


That would seem to be a good possibility to me also.  A Mech Tau list that required FW to be mounted and had battlesuits only as contingents would seem to be a great, flavorful place to have a larger armor cadre.




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Tactica
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:01 pm 
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Chroma, NH, Cw, L4,

All points well met. So thinking about that a bit...

Larger tank formations are a reserve for IG. That said, IG start off with 11 tanks in their Co, can have +3 Lemans, +3 Griffons, and +3 Hellhounds = 20 tanks.

The proposed base 9 tanks would have a potential for +2 Hammerheads, +2 Stingray (possibly) and +1 Skyray = 14 tanks.

OK, 14 tanks is less, but I agree - that's still too big for the Tau. I would like to see a mech cadre in this Tau list. From a Tau perspective, Mechanized Cadre isn't necessarily a sept or caste thing, just a tactic of FW caste (the fighting caste).

So, looking at Honda's suggested 6 base in the cadre (4 base in a contingent BTW) that would put the Max Tau tank formation at:

6 tanks base + 2 HH + 2 Stingray (potentially) + 1 Skyray = 11 tanks max with all upgrades.

Compared to the 20 max of IG, this seems much more reasonable.

This would also allow the Tau to have a Mechanized tank cadre that the list, IMHO, is lacking.

I would still say this formation should not be allowed crisis and FW type upgrades.

Exceptable and worth a try?

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Steele
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:08 pm 
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Quote (Tactica @ 28 Oct. 2005 (17:01))
Chroma, NH, Cw, L4,

All points well met. So thinking about that a bit...

Larger tank formations are a reserve for IG. That said, IG start off with 11 tanks in their Co, can have +3 Lemans, +3 Griffons, and +3 Hellhounds = 20 tanks.

The proposed base 9 tanks would have a potential for +2 Hammerheads, +2 Stingray (possibly) and +1 Skyray = 14 tanks.

OK, 14 tanks is less, but I agree - that's still too big for the Tau. I would like to see a mech cadre in this Tau list. From a Tau perspective, Mechanized Cadre isn't necessarily a sept or caste thing, just a tactic of FW caste (the fighting caste).

So, looking at Honda's suggested 6 base in the cadre (4 base in a contingent BTW) that would put the Max Tau tank formation at:

6 tanks base + 2 HH + 2 Stingray (potentially) + 1 Skyray = 11 tanks max with all upgrades.

Compared to the 20 max of IG, this seems much more reasonable.

This would also allow the Tau to have a Mechanized tank cadre that the list, IMHO, is lacking.

I would still say this formation should not be allowed crisis and FW type upgrades.

Exceptable and worth a try?

Yes, it is worth a try. For myself I thought that the limit would be around 9 to 11. As Clausewitz pointed out , there are Piranhas as upgrades as well, but I forgot about them.

Steele

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Tactica
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:17 pm 
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Steele,

Thanks for the reply,

I thought that conversation was around the HH contingent... anyway, I really wasn't considering the pirahna / tetra as an upgrade opportunity for this Cadre formation. The purpose of this formation was really meant to be a Cadre base of armored mech. LV's are better left for scouting parties and lighter formations of HH's IMHO. Unless requested in mass, I was thinking of leaving off the pirahnas for this cadre.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Armored Mobile Mechanized Cadre - Concept
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:20 pm 
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I'd play against it.  It's certainly worth giving it a try.

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