Manta - what's your thoughts? |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts?  Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:25 pm |
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So how many out there are making use of the Manta?
How is it working for you?
What point games do you play it in?
Do you planetfall with it?
Do you use it as a gun boat or as a taxi or both?
Are their wish lists for this piece?
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Rob
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Steele
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:12 am |
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Hi,
yes indeed I use the manta. Most of the time I Planetfall with it and 1 Moray. Inside some Crisis suits and HH. The only thing i wish for it would be a better FF Value and maybe some more DC. As it proved to be very fragile if you planetfall into dense terrain with a lot of enemy detachments in assault range.
Cheers!
Steele
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:31 pm |
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Love the model ... but not sure if I'm sold on the rules ? I'm thinking Planetfall and Skimmer ? More like a Drop Ship/Lander or T/Hawk ?  Still need to look at it more ! :)
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tactica
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:15 pm |
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L4, do you mean skimmer in place of Support Craft? Why or why not?
When you say you are not sold on the rules, which ones in question are you having a problem with Firepower, transport, movement, points, Support Craft, etc...
Steele,
FF on Moray and Manta are items that have not made sense to me thus far. I realize Tau are not meant to be hand-to-hand gods, but FF is reflective of a 40K game, not h-t-h. From gigantic starcraft getting close to the surface, one would think these things can really poor on the close range FP. You have my support on this one.
Increase in DC. This isn't something I've heard before.
I'm assuming you are satiated with the current level of FP outside of FF from this thing.
Thanks gents,
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Rob
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baronpiero
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:38 pm |
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The Manta is a cool thing, really. Especially when you use it to deploy one part of your army using planetfall as it's the only way to deploy a full strength Battlesuit cadre.
When you compare it to several Moray, it may seem to lack of bite and that's true: the Manta's greatest strength lies in its staying power when facing ennemy war engines. Certainly one of the most resilient things in the game. Even compared to other similarly expensive war engines like warlord titan and ork greater gargants:
- deflector shield cannot go down (however Blast markers pile on the manta more rapidly)
- critical hit is not very hindering comparatively.
This tends to makes the Manta one of the hardest Break-their-spirit objective in the game.
Finally the main two tweaks I would like to see adressed are the following:
- the randomness of the railcannon (1-6 hits) which can sometimes cause a glance at small war engines and sometimes kill a reaver titan outright.
- the AA on ion phalanx, which is part of support-crafts signature, and enforces the idea of them supporting other units.
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colonel_sponsz
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:57 pm |
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In the account of the retreat from Taros, the Tau with drew the manta they were using to bombard the space marine positions after it came under attack from landspeeders. Although it fought them off it was withdrawn for its own protection. This seems to be a good example of how they were used on Taros. After landing thier troops away from the battle field they would occasionally provide 'artillery' support for their disembarked troops, although they were not generally risked in combat.
Orde
_________________ "I'm smelling a whole lot of 'if' coming off this plan." Tau Army List Archive
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HecklerMD
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:04 pm |
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| Quote (baronpiero @ 20 Oct. 2005 (17:38)) | | - deflector shield cannot go down (however Blast markers pile on the manta more rapidly) |
Can someone explain to me why this is? Except for disrupt weapons, hits that are saved dont place BMs, including TK hits saved by the Deflector Shield, and hits against shields do not cause BMs either, including TK hits on a void shield.
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baronpiero
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:03 pm |
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Hekcler about BM piling on more rapidlyCan someone explain to me why this is? |
I mainly meant the BM for being shot at. I always thought that void shield could prevent it as long as they are not all down. But I checked and you're right (the only BM offset occurs when you shoot at a Manta with disrupt weapons)
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Honda
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:18 am |
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I would just like to say something to register an impression (not opinion) because I'm not sure why the following statement is made:
"FF on Moray and Manta are items that have not made sense to me thus far. I realize Tau are not meant to be hand-to-hand gods, but FF is reflective of a 40K game, not h-t-h. From gigantic starcraft getting close to the surface, one would think these things can really poor on the close range FP. You have my support on this one."
Why should we assume that a "spacecraft/atmospheric vehicle" should have great FF values? Where does that come into the equation? If anything, I would have expected just the opposite.
Thoughts?
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Honda
"Remember Taros? We do"
- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Steele
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:28 am |
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| Quote (Honda @ 21 Oct. 2005 (04:18)) | Why should we assume that a "spacecraft/atmospheric vehicle" should have great FF values? Where does that come into the equation? If anything, I would have expected just the opposite.
Thoughts? |
I would presume that any Vehicle that has the ability to deliver some cargo to the ground should also have the ability to fend off an attack while disembarking them. And given the size of the craft ( potential value) it should therefore have sizeable firepower compared to it.
Cheers!
Steele
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N0-1_H3r3
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:31 am |
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| Quote (Steele @ 21 Oct. 2005 (09:28)) | | Quote (Honda @ 21 Oct. 2005 (04:18)) | Why should we assume that a "spacecraft/atmospheric vehicle" should have great FF values? Where does that come into the equation? If anything, I would have expected just the opposite.
Thoughts? |
I would presume that any Vehicle that has the ability to deliver some cargo to the ground should also have the ability to fend off an attack while disembarking them. And given the size of the craft ( potential value) it should therefore have sizeable firepower compared to it.
Cheers!
Steele |
Agreed - IMO, that'd be the primary purpose of any Burst Cannons on such a craft: covering fire for the infantry as they disembark, as opposed to regular shooting (which is better served with the Ion Cannons, missiles and Railcannons).
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baronpiero
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:48 pm |
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Honda & N0-1_H3r3: I completely agree. The low FF value makes sense, if you consider that the main weapons have 'dead' angles when the ennemy comes so close, so only burst cannons are usable in a firefight situation (and maybe sentry/mecanician drones floating around the support craft).
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:54 pm |
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"T", I generally have no problems with all the rules, save for the Support Craft rating ... I don't think there needs to be a whole other paradigm invented to "muddy the waters". "To many cooks spoil the alien soup"  I collect 9+ Epic Armies(since '90), so too often, I see too much "Mission (Game) Creep" ... In trying to make their Fav Force, new, different, hard corps, Cool  etc., "the young Turks", reinvent "the wheel" for various reasons, when it would be just a easy and effective to just work within what has worked. Althought I'm all for new, better, etc., no need to be different for the sake of being different ... if you know what I mean ... In my tiny former military mind, I see the Manta Planetfall and then hover behind cover (like a movie-type UFO) and pop-up and fire like a Helo-Gunship (Apache, Cobra, etc.). That's the way we do the Thunderhawk and others. We dropped Air-2-Air (A2A) rules too, we only use aircraft as Close Air Support (CAS), as A2A opens up another paradigm that in our opinion does not need to be addressed in the Epic system, ie. Ground units supported by CAS ... But as always do what works for you (all) !   
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Steele
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:10 pm |
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| Quote (baronpiero @ 21 Oct. 2005 (13:48)) | | Honda & N0-1_H3r3: I completely agree. The low FF value makes sense, if you consider that the main weapons have 'dead' angles when the ennemy comes so close, so only burst cannons are usable in a firefight situation (and maybe sentry/mecanician drones floating around the support craft). |
How to explain: First : I don?t want to reinvent the wheel. But it seems odd to me, having a Spacecraft that large, with so poor defense capabilities once the fighting gets to close quarters. I can live with the stats as they are. Tactica wanted to know if there are any wishes or thoughts, that were mine. Nothing more.
Cheers!
Steele
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Manta - what's your thoughts? Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:43 pm |
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Understand, but as always do what works for you, not because it works for me (or G/W !) ... just my opinion !
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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