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[Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)

 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:10 am 
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Hi!

This thread will include any battle reports of the 6.1 army I put together, as well as offering a place for those of you who may be interested in trying the force out for yourselves to talk about how they fared...

(Please post any comments, advice etc you may have on the reports as well!)

Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:34 am 
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Ok, I'll start things off with a report on the game I played today (well yesterday, it's after midnight here in Ireland), a 3000 point standard tournament style game against a force of Biel-Tan Eldar.

Please note that there may be a few errors in which unit shot up which - mostly from turn 2 - so my apologies if I made a mistake!

We used the standard EpicA and Swordwind rulebooks, as well as the current T'au 4.1 list. And a few stand-in figs, as well...

My army selection was:

1 Kleistian Regimental HQ + Tau Water Caste Envoy,
1 Kleistian Tank Company (Hammerhead included),
1 Kleistian Airborne Grenadier COmpany (+Valkyries),
1 Kleistian Vulture Squadron,
1 Tau Pathfinder Tetra Contingent (+ Piranhas),
1 Tau Stingray Contingent
and
1 Tau Assault Ship Squadron (of 2 Morays).



My opponent took a force of:

1 Wraithgate,
1 Guardian Warhost (+Wraithguard and D-Cannon),
2 Guardian Warhosts (+D-Cannon),
3 Guardian Warhosts,
3 Falcon Troupes (+Firestorm),
2 Falcon Troupes
and
1 Scorpion.



(The pics above show the starting deployments, I had the Stingrays off to the right with the Tetras and Piranhas, with the Valks and Vultures on the left flank and the Morays, Russes and HQ in the centre. The Eldar were fairly evenly spread on their side of the board, with the largest warhost and 2 others kept off-table at the beginning of the game)


In the first turn, the Eldar won the intiative, at which point one of the Falcon troupes dashed across the table to kill two of my Vultures and break the formation! In response, my intrepid Airborne Grenadiers flew into the breach, launching a FF assault on the Eldar formation, against which the troops scored... no hits whatsoever! (The only hit that landed was from a Valkyrie, which was saved, naturally), which saw the Eldar tanks shoot down a stand of Kleist's supposed finest, enough to win the combat and break my crack troops for the next two turns!

As you can guess, I was not best pleased with this formation of Eldar Falcons, so I turned the Heavy Ion Phalanxes of the Moray squadron against them... resulting in their obliteration! (I like Morays!).

On the right flank, the Eldar moved a couple of Guardian formations near to the closest Objective marker, where I planned to supply a heavy dose of submunitions from the Stingray contingent. I positioned the Tetras and Piranhas within 15cm of the marker (and within 30cm of the nearest enemy formation), I took the chance of breaking them and retianed the initiative with the Stingrays, which used the bonus +1 to hit granted by their comrades to dish out... one hit!

Sadly, the Tetras soon found themselves on the wrong end of a bunch of Eldar weaponry, and were broken with only 3 stands remaining.

As I failed a few initiative rolls, the Russes and HQ slowly approached the nearest Objective marker. The first of the three Guardian formations which started off-table emerged from the Wraithgate on the opposite edge of the same terrain feature as said marker, my opponent keeping his most expensive formation safely on the craftworld for the time being.

In the end phase, only the Vultures rallied, plus I dropped a blast marker or two.


In the second turn, the Eldar won the initiative again, and were soon to press their advantage, though my Morays proved their worth yet again (even though I failed their Initiative roll...) by breaking one of the Guardian +D-Cannon Warhosts. However, my Stingrays were caught trying to run toward the main group and were broken by the attacking Falcons, which combined with the Scorpion to break my Tank Company, reducing it to 5 vehicles.

My Gue'o wasn't going tro take this lying down, so he sounded the charge and led the remainder of the HQ formation (which had recieved a number of casualties, losing most of its transport) into a Falcon+Firestorm Troupe, which went rather better than the Grenadiers' effort... the HQ formation won the assault, wiping out the Falcons with relatively light casualities.

On my right flank, the Falcon formations were closing in on the defenceless Objective markers, while securing the local ones using Guardian Warhosts. Also, the second formation of Guardians off-table emerged, yet as before the largest Warhost waited...

At the turn's end, the Stingray I had left, the few recon units and (at last!) the Grenadiers successfully rallied, yet the tank company remained broken - a failure that would haunt me soon enough...


The third turn began as the last two did, with the Eldar winning the initiative, though a failed intiative roll on their part - a rare one for this Eldar player - gave me enough breathing space to double move the Grenadiers alongside the HQ formation, close to the Wraithgate, launch rocket pods at an opposing Guardian warhost (and score a few blast markers on the Scorpion - not wquite enough to break it though!) and lend fore support as the HQ formation assaulted another Guardian formation between the Grenadiers and the Wraithgate. The assault was a victory, wiping out the opposing Warhost, yet the exposed formations were soon prey to the nearest Falcon troupe, which destroyed the Valkyries, breaking the Grenadiers once again. The assault had taken its toll on the HQ as well, causing them to lose eight stands and break.

At this point, my only good piece of news was the success my Morays were having (only losing 1 damage point to the Scorpion's pulsars), which double moved to within 15cm of the closer objective and used their ion cannon to turn another Falcon troupe into charred wraithbone, leaving only one of the troupe remaining and broken. My last hurrah came when the Vultures maaged to break the Scorpion, despite failing their initiative roll and relying on a single Hellstrike hit to drive off the opposing Engine of Vaul.

At this stage I was in bad shape, my tank contingent was wiped out by an atack from another one of those cursed Falcon troupes, my Stingray failed its initiative roll and broke, and the last remnants of the recon contingent tried to dispute my home objective but was wiped out in the end.

And the last off-table warhost came on this turn, too.


At the game's end, my opponent had soundly thumped my army 5-0.


I hadn't expected to do well, I have not had much game time over the last several months, plus my opponent learned a lot at the Nottingham Epic tourney this year, plus I had some pretty dire rolling in the first turn for the Grenadiers' assault and the Stingrays' shooting, but I was pretty despondent after the loss. I can't help but feel that in more capable hands this army can do much more impressive things, that at the moment the main liability this list would have is the inability of its designer to turn it into an effective fighting force.

Or maybe I'm over-reacting!

If you have any opinions on any of this, as well as advice on how to get more out of the list as it stands, please let me know.


Gary





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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:02 pm 
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This week's game has had to be postponed, due to my being housebound with a sinus infection, so I should be back up and running next week.

In the meantime, if you have any thoughts on the above report, please post them here, it's kinda lonely over here...

Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:08 pm 
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cool report. Thanks for posting pics. What happened to some of that terrain though! :)

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:30 pm 
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Hi!

The terrain is a long-serving part of the Dublin Games Guild's collection, and as such has lost the chickenly springness it may have once had...

What are your thoughts on how the army managed, the tactics and army selection used etc?

Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:31 pm 
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Hi Gary,

Nice report.

From reading the opposing armies I would have anticipated a tough time for your army.

Firstly the elder had a fairly big activation advantage.  This meant they could use his multiple activations to gang-up on your formations.  And your early losses would only exacerbate the problem.

Secondly, your Gue?senshi Army List seems a little short of AT firepower.  And with all those falcons to deal with that was going to tell.  This was again made worse by losing the tank company.  This tank company?s RA should have helped against the Falcons, but the Scorpion was the key to taking them out quickly (notice your opponent was quick to neutralize the Vultures, which were the best unit to quickly take out the Scorpion).

A lack of BP weapons allows the assault guardian formations to bunch up to maximize their FF potential; this makes them more powerful than they might otherwise be.

I wouldn?t be too disheartened though.  Your opponent definitely looks like he knows what he?s doing and he has a tried and tested army (assuming he used something similar in the tournament he entered).  Whereas you have an untested army that may or may not be from a balanced list.

If you believe that you will face the same (or similar) army I would suggest maybe two tank companies, or one with and extra fire support platoon (with chimeras).  Try to keep your vultures out of sight until you can take out the scorpion (depends on LOS rules you are using, I would suggest you check out one of the experimental/suggested rules for pop-up attacks).

Good Luck.


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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:32 pm 
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Hi!

Thanks for the feedback on the report, I was a little down after the pasting so forgive the despondency!

(Well, I have yet to win a game of Epic so I'll feel despondent about that instead...)

Anyway:

*Eldar list: yeah, you're right. His list was battle-tested at Fury of Champions, those many activations and many pop--up attacks were quite a handful to oppose (we didn't use the terrain-affected pop-up rules in this game, I would have had a slightly easier time of it if we had... but how and ever)

*Gue'Senshi list: The list I took was short on AT, I should not have left the fire support platton out of the selection. That said, I was trying to test out the Stingrays, Tetras and Piranhas, which took up space which would have been filled by a few superheavies and company upgrades...

*BPs: Aside from the one-shot bombardment the Valks get (which I may or may not consider replacing with one of the Valk variants in IA3), there won't be any BP weapons in this list, due to the Tau influence on the force organisation, the force have to rely on vehicles such as Stingrays and Narwhals to pepper infantry and Morays to tear up troublesome formations (which they do quite well! Love that Ion Phalanx variant...), I should have figured out how to actually do this against the pointy-ears... oh well, better luck next time!

*Next time: If I face this list again, I'm going to go back to taking two mechanised companies and to fleshing out these companies with FS units. I may go up to a 3500 point formation so I can give the Tetras, Piranhas and Stingrays another go (although they are less than able to take full advantage of their speed and firepower against Eldar, if your first strike fails as spectacularly as mine did at least... Would have been handy if those Disrupt-causing weapons had actually hit!

Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:48 pm 
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I'm curious, were you using the in print skimmer rules or the 'whoever's closest' version being taughted as the next experimental rule to be tested/adopted/whatever... ?

Also,were you playing any experimental (not in book) rules(outside of your list that is)? :)

In summary, it looks like you ran into a lot of armor and fell subject to tau's current problem (IMHO) of not having enough AT to counter.

The activation game got you pretty bad too it looks like. Eldar are known for their highly effective formations. I don't think the 4.1 tau list - or your alternate list - is really up to fighting the eldar, both lists optimized for effectiveness.

I may just be biased, but the Eldar are rediculously hard for the tau to face effectively unless you are implimenting some experimental rules / alternate / playtest rules. The first of which must be the alternate skimming/pop'up rules IMHO.





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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:19 am 
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*Next time: If I face this list again, I'm going to go back to taking two mechanised companies and to fleshing out these companies with FS units.

The problem I see with this is that the normal infantry dont have long range AT weapons. ?So in many cases any blast markers will end up keeping the fire support units suppressed. ?In a tank company all the units have decent range AT fire, so should suffer less from suppression. ?I also think that keeping the LRu tanks in front to present the pulse lasers with RA should make for a more resilient formation. ?With the tank company's main weakness being CC assault it shouldn't be too hard to stay out of reach of 15cm guardian formations.





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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:21 pm 
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Aside from the Gue'Senshi list itself, I stuck with the EpicA rules from the book.

(I intend to use the experimental rules next time around, especially that skimmer one, although it will affect my Tau units in the list - almost as much as those hit-and-run Eldar vehicles... nah, I didn't believe that myself! This coming from a Biel-Tan player who can't win with that force either...)

Funnily enough, I wish I could get the hang of the Eldar the way I've seen others do so, though I am limited by what models I can use (without nanotechnology and genetic engineering, funds don't grow on trees!)

As regards infantry, another option I've been considering is to plump for a second Airborne Grenadier Company, with associated Valkyries and Vultures, use these with the Tank Company to grab objectives and win assaults, while using the HQ (or just a standard Mechanised Company) to sit on the home objective and possibly act as mobile reserve.

Gary





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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:19 am 
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Good luck in your next game.  And dont forget to let us know how it goes.


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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:43 pm 
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Don't worry, I won't!

Hurrah! Epicomms is back!

[BW Megatron] Yesssss........ [/BW Megatron]

Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:54 pm 
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Hi!

I had another go with the Gue'senshi last night in the Dublin Games Guild, against the same opponent from last time. He had more or less the same army as before, but this time we played 3500 points and I jigged around with the army list I took.

I had:

1 Kleistian Regimental HQ + Fire Support Platoon (Devilfish included),
1 Kleistian Grenadier Company (no transport),
1 Kleistian Tank Company (Railgun Hammerhead included),
1 Kleistian Airborne Grenadier Company (+Valkyries),
1 Kleistian Vulture Squadron,
1 Baneblade,
1 Tau Pathfinder Tetra Contingent (+ Piranhas),
1 Tau Stingray Contingent
and
1 Tau Assault Ship Squadron (of 2 Morays, Ion cannon variant).


He took an extra Scorpion and fleshed out another formation of Guardians with support weapons.


The terrain was similar to those seen in the last game, but more densely placed.

This game had one major difference to the last one - we used the experimental rules from the vault, including the new skimmer pop-up. With this, the nature of the game changed considerably!


He deployed similarly to last time around, I grouped my army into two or three loose groups, with the Stingrays sitting on my home objective in the left corner, the Tetras and Piranhas just in front of them. Going left to right, I placed my Russes (with Baneblade in close support) and my HQ in the centre, spaced roughly 30-40cm from each other. Next across were my Morays, then my Valkyries and Vultures. I garrisoned the foot Grenadiers near the objective on the right side of the table in my half.
He had no garrisoned formations.

My plan was to sit the foot Grenadiers on their objective, keeping the Valks+Vultures on standby to pounce should any of those pesky Falcon troupes get close. I would move the Tetras and Piranhas up on their flank to guide the Stingrays' deadly guided payload. The Russes and Baneblade would rumble over to secure the third objective marker on my table side, with the HQ on standby to march over to wherever they may be needed. The Morays were to command the heights from a suitable hill and rain ionized death upon any Eldar formation trying to get too cozy to my right or centre. I wouldn't risk having my formations destroyed piecemeal by trying to grab his objectives, until I had had a chance to take the wind out of his force's sails when he sent his forces to try and take my objectives away from me.

(I should note that I totally forgot the Support Craft rule with the Morays, and when looking for targets I treated them as skimmers! Oh well, they still did well enough for me, although there were a couple of Falcon troupes which I could have dealt pain and suffering to had I remembered that they weren't able to hide behind a hill...)

The first turn was relatively slow, as we both got to grips with the limitations that skimmers faced regarding popping up. (My Valks had to wait before using their Hellstrikes, and his Scorpions couldn't snipe my Russes with quite so much impunity...) I did break a couple of his Falcon troupes when I got to mark them up and send in the Stingray's seekers (Stingrays on Sustained Fire with a marked target are just the job!) and by shooting up another troupe with the Russes, plus the recon team broke and I lost a Russ or two, but as of yet not too much damage. I moved the Valks and Vultures close to the garrisoned Grenadier formation and the Morays failed their init, so they just floated where they were - they didn't have far to move, anyway.

In the end phase, we both rallied our beroken formations and shedded some blast markers.

In the second turn, he won the initiative again (Haven't won the initiative yet against Eldar with the Gue'senshi) and things started to get more interesting. On the left flank, the Russes moved to a hill near the objective, allowing them to see - and shoot - the Eldar tanks in hiding on the other side of the hill. The Baneblade made its way over to the same hill later in the turn. traded some fire and I broke a couple more of his Falcon formations, but the Russes eventually broke themselves after his Scorpion showed up to play. (It was foolish to reveal its left flank though, as my Vultures Hellstriked it to death from the other side of the table!) I got the other Scorpion with Baneblade fire - it had moved to secure the hill from which the Russes had fled - only to soak up Eldar fire and eventually brak in turn.

By this stage he had used up most of his activations on that flank (and his Guardian formations were still too far away to worry much about - except for the warhost which emerged from the Wraithgate and D-cannoned their way through a few of my Baneblade's structure points... or did they kill a few Russes? I can't recall for certain. Not like it happened only yesterday, eh?)
so I was able to march my HQ formation, dismount my infantry and fire support stands over the objective and wait for trouble!

Also, the recon team moved to allow my Stingrays to dish out more hits, though I missed out of toasting one of his larger warhosts by not pre-measuring and failing to move the tanks a few centimetres forward...

On the right flank, he moved a Falcon troupe behind a rocky terrain piece near the hill the Morays had moved up to, and since I forgot that they were support craft I turned my attention to blasting a reinflrced Guardian warhost sitting on one of his objectives. I killed about 4 stands, not enough to make him break. Meanwhile, a Falcon troupe had positioned themselves on the other end of the terrain piece facing my garrison Grenadiers, so I used the Airborne Grenadiers to FF them to death, losing only 1 stand in the assault! (I consolidated back behind cover, too)

At this stage, my opponent had marched the formation guarding his home objective towards me - though still too far away to do that much - leaving his home objective unguarded. Not that I could reach it anyway, but as it turned out is was a deciding factor.

At turn's end, we each rallied our respective broken formations and were set for a truly serious scrap!

Sadly, he had to call it time, as he couldn't stay around any longer. The VP tally was 1-0 to me after 2 turns(I had Defend to Flag, he didn't after leaving his home objective). It would have likely been a much more interesting result had we been able to fight out that third turn, but hey, 1-0 is 1-0, my first Epic victory!

I was feeling much more comfortable with my forces this time around! I could rely on their firepower and durability in the face of his reduced sniping ability. I was able to rely on the terrain to a much greater extent. I could get more out of the Stingrays, by leaving them on my home objective and using the T+Ps to pick out suitable targets in its fire range. Overall, I was confident going into the third turn that I could handle what he could throw at me at that stage - something I haven't felt in an Epic game before.

Thoughts?


Gary

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:46 am 
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With the price of F/W T&K Infantry, I was thinking using IG,(or GZG, etc.) as Gue'Senshi, to fill out my pending T&K TO&Es ...  I may have to buy a few more packs of Fire Warriors, Drones and Kroot, but the Gue'Senshi concept is worth a look.  I'll continue to watch the Epic Gue'Senshi evolution ... :;):

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 Post subject: [Gue'Senshi] Playtest Reports (v6.1)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:04 am 
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Yay! More interest in the list.

I'll be trying to get more playtesting done over the next month or two, and try to cram in as much time as I can spare to get 3000 points' worth actually painted...

If you try them out, please feel free to post your comments and feedback!

Gary

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