Having a problem justifying Kroot.. |
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot..  Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:49 pm |
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I'm having a hard time fitting Kroot in my army. I think it's due to the fact that the Kroot are all jumbled up in one big herd. They all just seem to have differences that make it hard to group them up. Granted they are all CC specialists, but the Gnarlocs move slower than everyone else. Some have infiltrate while others have scout and others have no special abilities. Can we get Carnivores in, still be able to give them the upgrades, but then make the upgrades (hounds, Krootox, and gnarlocs) big animal herds of thier own somehow? Also shouldn't the Kroot have the Hunters as well that can be used as snipers? I know the Pathfinders fit that role already, but the Kroot are the ones that really have the ability in the main system. Just some thoughts. Thanks!
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:02 am |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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I have not played a game with my Tau & Kroot, as they are SIB. But my thoughts in formulating my tactics would be to use the Kroot, like we do Chaos Beastmen. We send them in as a "Flying Column"/flanking/raiding force ... On the flanks, under cover, heading for the enemy's rear. Don't know if it's valid, just a thought. If nothing else, it will tie up some of his forces. And if he ignores them, it might be too late and they are too close for comfort ... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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JimmyGrill
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm |
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Kroot, well they are still on the 'focus' list.
I find all their upgrades an asset for a Koroot Kindred, the different movement ranges are quite intentional. 'Scout' on the Hounds is still experimental and may very well be changed to something more useful.
The big problem about Kroot is their fragility, and that for some reason, they always get picked on by opponents 
Keeping them in cover works to a degree, but when performing an assault, they have to leave it finally, and will then be pretty vulnerable during assault and after it - I have lost count of Kroot Kindreds I've lost after winning an assault.
So the big question is - can we use them better or do they require an upgrade?
Currently, I'd take Gue'vesa over Kroot any day... but I guess I'll have to use them more, and in larger numbers (2+ Kindreds for example), and see where I get from there. I also encourage all playtesters to experiment with Kroot.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:49 pm |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:41 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
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LOL, I'd rather make them useful and cost something rather than be disposable and still get shot to bits before they do anything... 
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Rob
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:39 am |
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Well even thought the Beastmen are "Free", we do use them as I suggested previously. They are very useful if deployed properly. But that's true of any unit ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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markHargrave
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:33 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:01 pm
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I also have had trouble using kroot, at most they have acted as a speed bump when I throw them into an enemy formation to hold them up, like JG the Kroot sometime win if I am lucky but are effectively destroyed in the process, not exactly in line with the Tau way of war
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:17 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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How are you guys placing objectives in the GT scenario?
If you place one of your objectives near the enemy blitz and the other well off to the side a small force that won't gather much attention is perfect for moving off to snag the outlying objective and for making sure your opponent doesn't get TSNP or Defend the Flag objectives.
~20 stands of Kroot infantry far to one flank would seem to me to be a cheap but relatively sturdy formation to use in such a strategy.
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Out of curiosity, what are the relative Toughness and Armor values for Kroot versus Fire Warriors in 40K? I guess I'm just wondering if they might deserve a similar save. I've only fought the Tau once, but I don't recall the Kroot being much more vulnerable than the Warriors. However, it was long ago and memory is prone to fade.
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Neal
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vanvlak
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:37 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 29 2005 July,20:17) | | Out of curiosity, what are the relative Toughness and Armor values for Kroot versus Fire Warriors in 40K? ?I guess I'm just wondering if they might deserve a similar save. |
40K:
Tau Fire Warrior toughness 3 save 4+
Kroot Carnivore toughness 3 no save - UNLESS they have a Shaper leading them, which gives them an option for a 6+ save for 1 point per model
cost of Tau - 10 points
cost of Kroot - 7 points
Kroot also have an initiative of 3 compared to 2 for the Tau, and a WS 4 compared to the Tau's miserly 2. Both are BS 3, but Tau are S3 and Kroot S4. Both have 1 wound and 1 attack. Tau have leadership 7, Kroot as well, but if the +1point save of 6+ is taken, they also get Ld 8.
The Tau have higher cost, therefore, for their better armour save and better weapon options.
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Back from oblivion (again)?
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:37 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Well... nevermind, then. Thanks.
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:17 pm |
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kroot also get the move through cover ability in forest/jungle and get an additional +1 save in said terrain. They also get to infiltrate into forest and jungle. Furthermore, they get 3 attacks on the charge.
All in 40K that is... getting 4+ cover save in jungle/forest really helps the survivability in 40k.
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Rob
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penal battalion
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:41 am |
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I must admit I love my Kroot. They have saved my collective arse on a few occasions. However they do tend to end up a pile of smouldering bird poo more often than not. Kroot riders I tend to have as slow snipers who can rush a weak unit with their gnarloc at an oppatune moment. I also have a nasty habit of equiping small 'hit' squads with upgraded kit, and an officer by the name of Kurtz. The horror the horror:p
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Zulus' Sir! fousands of 'em!
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:23 am |
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Kurtz lives ! And I guess the Kroot rules maybe need a little work ? 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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penal battalion
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:28 am |
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Location: S.W London.
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I've got a basic framework that we use in friendly(?) games. I think the kroot have 11 'types' in my battle force. More will be added as I go. I still can't face putting wings on epic kroot yet.
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Zulus' Sir! fousands of 'em!
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Breotan
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Post subject: Having a problem justifying Kroot.. Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:18 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:49 pm
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| Quote (penal battalion @ 30 2005 July,02:41) | | However they do tend to end up a pile of smouldering bird poo more often than not. Kroot riders I tend to have as slow snipers who can ?rush a weak unit with their gnarloc at an oppatune moment. |
You probably know to specialize your Kroot detachments, i.e., don't mix slow Kroot with fast Kroot. ?But the problem still remains... how to get the Kroot to the battle before they are vaporized by the opposition. 
I've not used Kroot in my Tau army to date, so keep that in mind as I make these suggestions. ?Would more liberal use of Infiltrate make the Kroot more useful for their points or would that break them somehow? ?What about Scout? ?Or have these suggestions already been discussed and dismissed?
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You people are crazy! Crazy fruit-loops from the leftward land of silliness. Even I couldn't make this stuff up.
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? 
?
? But seriously, maybe make them very cheap, like Chaos Beastmen are "Free" in our system (based on SM2, IIRC ?). And 1 Det. comes with every CSM Legion ? ?